will chinese replace as the world`s international language?

[latenlazy]

I live with a roommate who is trilingual (Chinese, Japanese, and English) and we talk about this a lot, so I'm not short on knowledge about the Japanese language. I'm aware of the high degree of variability in Kanji use within the Japanese language. However, the fact that Japan and the other East Asian cultures used Chinese characters for a good portion of their history before adopting a more phonetic system would indicate that nothing categorical excludes Chinese from being a universal language. It's the power arrangement of institutions and agents that determine which language system is used internationally, and not inherent properties within the language itself. You may find memorizing Kanji difficult, but a Chinese learner of English will find it difficult to figure out words through a spelling system. It's largely a matter of which one is already embedded in the workings of the world (and thanks to the British, that would be English).

Furthermore, just as Japanese has gone through written simplification, so has both Mainland China and Taiwan. While Taiwan adopted a similar system to katakana in Zhuyin, Mainland China has opted for a romanized system in pinyin, so it's not really a matter of learning to memorize Chinese characters.

 

[MiG-29]

I live with a roommate who is trilingual (Chinese, Japanese, and English) and we talk about this a lot, so I'm not short on knowledge about the Japanese language. I'm aware of the high degree of variability in Kanji use within the Japanese language. However, the fact that Japan and the other East Asian cultures used Chinese characters for a good portion of their history before adopting a more phonetic system would indicate that nothing categorical excludes Chinese from being a universal language. It's the power arrangement of institutions and agents that determine which language system is used internationally, and not inherent properties within the language itself. You may find memorizing Kanji difficult, but a Chinese learner of English will find it difficult to figure out words through a spelling system. It's largely a matter of which one is already embedded in the workings of the world (and thanks to the British, that would be English).

Furthermore, just as Japanese has gone through written simplification, so has both Mainland China and Taiwan. While Taiwan adopted a similar system to katakana in Zhuyin, Mainland China has opted for a romanized system in pinyin, so it's not really a matter of learning to memorize Chinese characters.

i agree, it is possible Japanese can learn Chinese more or less without so much difficulty, however i am saying not Asians but africans, latin americans, middle easterns, Europeans, russians and North americans.

It is possible a Japanese might learn Chinese due to economics and cultural linkage, i agree, but a brazilian or a Zambian can not learn Chinese so easily, the Chinese language will continue using Kanjies, so it is unlikely the rest of the world will use Chinese as an international language.
China might become the first or second largest market depening in what will happen in the future but English won`t go, to learn english you just need less than 30 letters and you will be able to read it in few days if not hours, also the majority of the most spoken languages in the world are European; English and Spanish are widely spoken, and french too, so most countries in the America continent will use spanish and English to do business, in Europe will be the same with maybe the inclusion of french or german, in Africa french and arab are widely spoken and the same applies for the middle east, so it is unlikely Chinese can replace it.

 

[IronsightSniper]

The Chinese language will be a dominant language when the amount of 2nd language Chinese speakers passes the amount of 2nd language English speakers.

For reference, there's an estimated 600,000,000 people around the world that took the time to learn English. There's an estimated 180,000,000 people around the world that took the time to learn Mandarin.

 

[kyanges]

So just eliminate the complex characters, Chinese would catch on even more.

I can see it happening. One reason for abandoning them might be the computers themselves. Sooner or later, people might ask themselves, why write in english characters for the pinyin, then use that to get the right Chinese characters? They might just stop at the pinyin...

Can't wait for universal translators, Star Trek style, for Earth's languages. No language would be in danger of extinction then. .

 

[latenlazy]

i agree, it is possible Japanese can learn Chinese more or less without so much difficulty, however i am saying not Asians but africans, latin americans, middle easterns, Europeans, russians and North americans.

It is possible a Japanese might learn Chinese due to economics and cultural linkage, i agree, but a brazilian or a Zambian can not learn Chinese so easily, the Chinese language will continue using Kanjies, so it is unlikely the rest of the world will use Chinese as an international language.
China might become the first or second largest market depening in what will happen in the future but English won`t go, to learn english you just need less than 30 letters and you will be able to read it in few days if not hours, also the majority of the most spoken languages in the world are European; English and Spanish are widely spoken, and french too, so most countries in the America continent will use spanish and English to do business, in Europe will be the same with maybe the inclusion of french or german, in Africa french and arab are widely spoken and the same applies for the middle east, so it is unlikely Chinese can replace it.

You're not thinking the big picture outside the box. There are rules to combine those "simple characters" to create words. For people who just learn the language those rules can be a real doozy. I've seen many Chinese English learners struggle with spelling and reading because they're not used to having to interpret words through those rules. Many try to forgo it by memorizing as many words as they can. What I'm trying to get at is there's nothing implicit about either system that makes one necessarily easier than the other. It's about what a person grows up with and becomes used to, which in turn is determined by what language the dominant institutions use. Ask anyone from Singapore or Hong Kong if they find either English or Chinese difficult, and they'll simply say "neither" because they grew up with both.

Furthermore, there needs to be a distinction between language as it's written and language as it's spoken. No matter how "easy" the writing system is, the root of a language is anchored in the speaking system, and there's no language that is "simpler" speaking wise than the other, unless we're reduced caveman grunts.

 

[MiG-29]

So just eliminate the complex characters, Chinese would catch on even more.

I can see it happening. One reason for abandoning them might be the computers themselves. Sooner or later, people might ask themselves, why write in english characters for the pinyin, then use that to get the right Chinese characters? They might just stop at the pinyin...

Can't wait for universal translators, Star Trek style, for Earth's languages. No language would be in danger of extinction then. .

I do not think that happen, Japanese for example use the regular english alphabet in the computer keyboards, when they right japanese they have to know the exact chinese character of the two of three displayed options offered、　for example the word Japan in Japanese is 日本 which is a compound word for day and book but used togather they mean Japan, so unless the person has previous knowledge of japanese won`able to write it, another thing why it won`t be easy for Chinese and Japanese to give up chinese characters is their national identity they have formed, in my opinion Chinese won`t give up their character ideograms simply because by doing they will feel they have been westernized, same is with Japan, they do not give up ideograms because they think that is part of their national identity

 

[MiG-29]

You're not thinking the big picture outside the box. There are rules to combine those "simple characters" to create words. For people who just learn the language those rules can be a real doozy. I've seen many Chinese English learners struggle with spelling and reading because they're not used to having to interpret words through those rules. Many try to forgo it by memorizing as many words as they can. What I'm trying to get at is there's nothing implicit about either system that makes one necessarily easier than the other. It's about what a person grows up with and becomes used to, which in turn is determined by what language the dominant institutions use. Ask anyone from Singapore or Hong Kong if they find either English or Chinese difficult, and they'll simply say "neither" because they grew up with both.

Furthermore, there needs to be a distinction between language as it's written and language as it's spoken. No matter how "easy" the writing system is, the root of a language is anchored in the speaking system, and there's no language that is "simpler" speaking wise than the other, unless we're reduced caveman grunts.

I disagree in terms that languages have similarities, i can speak several languages, Spanish, English, Italian, portuguese and Japanese, most european languages are related so in portuguese the words for university is universidade and in spanish universidad, so many times you do not need a dictionary.

However if i try to learn Chinese there a fewer cognates so i will need dictionary most of the time, add to that the Chinese characters i will requiere more time than learning Portuguese or Italian.

Now in countries like let us Brazil and Argentina, the use of Chinese won`t be the best option because basicly both languages are so similar that there is no need even of English.

So basicly in the Americas Chinese has no chances of becoming a language used widely, in Europe is the same.

The only place where i can see Chinese becoming dominant is in east Asia, but not in South East Asia, where Indians will favour english and encourage its use.

 

[latenlazy]

I do not think that happen, Japanese for example use the regular english alphabet in the computer keyboards, when they right japanese they have to know the exact chinese character of the two of three displayed options offered、　for example the word Japan in Japanese is 日本 which is a compound word for day and book but used togather they mean Japan, so unless the person has previous knowledge of japanese won`able to write it, another thing why it won`t be easy for Chinese and Japanese to give up chinese characters is their national identity they have formed, in my opinion Chinese won`t give up their character ideograms simply because by doing they will feel they have been westernized, same is with Japan, they do not give up ideograms because they think that is part of their national identity

Japan has a special keyboard for hiragana characters. Anyways, the reason why romanization is used is because computer infrastructure and therefore typing software was developed in America. This is again purely due to the inertia of a preexisting structure. Also, your example for needing to know what a set of characters mean together to understand the meaning of a word is no different than in any other language. If I asked you the definition of what restive was, you'd either have to memorize that, or try to figure it out using any set of latin or greek roots which may or may not apply to the word, since the majority of the diction in English is borrowed.

Also, just for reference sake, 日本 actually does make sense. 日 means sun, and 本 isn't just a reference word for books, but by itself actually means roots/origin. AKA where the sun comes from, or land of the rising sun.

 

[latenlazy]

I disagree in terms that languages have similarities, i can speak several languages, Spanish, English, Italian, portuguese and Japanese, most european languages are related so in portuguese the words for university is universidade and in spanish universidad, so many times you do not need a dictionary.

However if i try to learn Chinese there a fewer cognates so i will need dictionary most of the time, add to that the Chinese characters i will requiere more time than learning Portuguese or Italian.

Now in countries like let us Brazil and Argentina, the use of Chinese won`t be the best option because basicly both languages are so similar that there is no need even of English.

So basicly in the Americas Chinese has no chances of becoming a language used widely, in Europe is the same.

The only place where i can see Chinese becoming dominant is in east Asia, but not in South East Asia, where Indians will favour english and encourage its use.

That's because Chinese is an entirely different language family group than the European languages. There is as much variation within the Latin and Germanic languages as there is within different dialects of Chinese.

Chinese has much an opportunity of being dominant in an area of the world where a different language family is spoken as much as English had a chance to succeed in places like India, Singapore, or Hong Kong, or French in Vietnam. Again, the adoption of a language has nothing to do with the level of difference, and everything to do with which international entity is dominant.

 

[MiG-29]

Japan has a special keyboard for hiragana characters. Anyways, the reason why romanization is used is because computer infrastructure and therefore typing software was developed in America. This is again purely due to the inertia of a preexisting structure. Also, your example for needing to know what a set of characters mean together to understand the meaning of a word is no different than in any other language. If I asked you the definition of what restive was, you'd either have to memorize that, or try to figure it out using any set of latin or greek roots which may or may not apply to the word, since the majority of the diction in English is borrowed.

Also, just for reference sake, 日本 actually does make sense. 日 means sun, and 本 isn't just a reference word for books, but by itself actually means roots/origin. AKA where the sun comes from, or land of the rising sun.

i do not agree, humans can not make as many sounds as the total number of chinese characters, therefore a computer keyboard will use sounds, not characters, so you can have a keyboard of 30 letters to write any language.

about the kanjies used in japan, used as single elements i am not wrong, however japanese uses different combinations to express diferent meanings for example the word subway 地下鉄　another compound word meaning ground down iron, as single elements they will mean nothing unless you know they mean subway, for a Western person like me, does not make any sense unless we are told about it, so my learning of Japanese writing system will requiere me much more knowledge of Japanese Phonetics, and Chinese Characters, so definitively Japanese will be harder than english to learn, second Chinese does not use Hiragana or katakana which ease the learning of japanese, so i would rate Japanese easier to learn than Chinese, and still Japanese is unable to compete with english as an international language.