J-20... The New Generation Fighter

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cloyce

Junior Member
Re: New Generation Fighter

The F-35's STOVL necessitated a different engine, I don't think China has that demand and it would make sense cost-wise to use the same engine.

F-35A CTOL also necessitated a different engine, if not, it would became underpowered.
The STOVL version (F-35B) has less range and speed compared to CTOL version.

To me it makes sense to produce a smaller single-engined version J-XX, in order to create a high-low combination and maybe offering the smaller version for export to friendly nations like Pakistan. By 2020, Islamabad will need a 5th gen plane to counter-balance T-50 armed India.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Re: New Generation Fighter

I think you mean "come in service". If they can't make the J-XX fly by 2017... eurgh.

And also remember the YF-22 and YF-23 went through the whole competition stage which can be shaved off from the J-XX's development time. Also there won't be as much of the politics which surrounded the F-22 in the immediate post cold war environment.
I think 2017 is a fairly good estimate of when IOC of the non WS-15 J-XX would occur.
Oops, I did mean come into service. I suppose 2017 is a good estimate for IOC assuming that they don't hit any major problems along the way.
Sure it could be possible, but without evidence it's as groundless as the 117S idea. We'll have to hear from Maya to see how the improved WS-10A for the 4th gen fighter is going.
Despite it being my idea, I think it's even less likely than if it were the 117S, since at least there is some source for that (even if it's one as remarkably unreliable as JDW).
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Re: New Generation Fighter

Despite it being my idea, I think it's even less likely than if it were the 117S, since at least there is some source for that (even if it's one as remarkably unreliable as JDW).

I just think it very unlikely that the Russians would sell the best engines they have which is also powering their own 5th gen prototype. And if a sale had occured then the Russians would be bragging about it all over the place.

Also the engine nozzles haven't been seen "vectored" yet, which suggests it may be a non TVC engine.
 

siegecrossbow

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Re: New Generation Fighter

Oops, I did mean come into service. I suppose 2017 is a good estimate for IOC assuming that they don't hit any major problems along the way.

Despite it being my idea, I think it's even less likely than if it were the 117S, since at least there is some source for that (even if it's one as remarkably unreliable as JDW).

2017 and earlier is good since the F-35 is getting probably going to be purchased by many of China's neighbors at around the same time.
 

maozedong

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

dwc0f4.jpg


I saw you guy posted same photos in the thread, I would like to post one more, but I think this one is clearest.no body can doubt it's PSed now.
one thing I need to confirm that the rear edge portion of wings of J-20 fighter are W shape?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Re: New Generation Fighter

I just think it very unlikely that the Russians would sell the best engines they have which is also powering their own 5th gen prototype. And if a sale had occured then the Russians would be bragging about it all over the place.

Also the engine nozzles haven't been seen "vectored" yet, which suggests it may be a non TVC engine.

Does it really matter if the 117S is not the end engine for the Russian 5th gen aircraft. Although they have to do is supply them , with a little bit of foot dragging.
Other than that it looks like it could be the AL-31 or WS10A , take your pick
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: New Generation Fighter

dwc0f4.jpg


I saw you guy posted same photos in the thread, I would like to post one more, but I think this one is clearest.no body can doubt it's PSed now.
one thing I need to confirm that the rear edge portion of wings of J-20 fighter are W shape?

Some of the eyewitnesses claimed that it was W shaped. I think the best way to see whether that is true is to snap a picture when the plane takes off.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: New Generation Fighter

I think chances are it will likely be AL31 since that is the most powerful and mature engine China currently has available.

They will use the AL31 for tests and evaluation to limit uncertainty as much as possible and get as much of the flight testing and evaluation done as possible.

Hopefully the WS15 would be ready in time for IOC of 2015-17ish, if not, they will probably use WS10A for the first pre-production batch.

These planes will be underpowered and will probably lack supercruise, but they should be pretty much the same as the intended final version in all other regards. This means they can be sent to the CFTC for pilot training and tactical evaluation while the WS15 is being finished and integrated into the production version.

A regiment of J20s, even with WS10A, would be a massive asset and force multiplier for the PLAAF as it would allow it to help the rest of the PLA test and develop anti-stealth tactics and weapons and also give PLAAF pilots as much time as possible to learn about what 5th gen fighters can do to write the playbook and getting the most out of these planes.

If the PLAAF commander is on site, than the first flight must be immanent as he is not the kind of guy you keep waiting around.

Its interesting that they are keeping the J20 out in the open so much. Technically, they could have done all the preflight and post flight checks in a hanger, and only rolled the plane out for the taxi test itself.

Looks like CAC is trying to leak the plane. If this trend continues, we should get some pretty sweet shots of the planes profile when it flies.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Re: New Generation Fighter

Some of the eyewitnesses claimed that it was W shaped. I think the best way to see whether that is true is to snap a picture when the plane takes off.

Bill Sweetman has a new article up on aviation week where he says the wing looks "lambda shaped"

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Does it really matter if the 117S is not the end engine for the Russian 5th gen aircraft. Although they have to do is supply them , with a little bit of foot dragging.
Other than that it looks like it could be the AL-31 or WS10A , take your pick

It does matter because at this point and time 117S is still the most recent and most advanced engine the Russians have and they'd be hard pushed to allow export (even a couple) to another country.
 

Blitzo

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Re: New Generation Fighter

BAM -- looks like huitong has finally updated his page:
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The J-20 #2001 prototype was photographed when it was preparing for high-speed taxxing trial at the CAC airfield on December 22, 2010. The prototype features a pair of all-moving tailfins and ventral stabilzing fins, and the laters are expected to be removed in the production models. It also features F-22 style air intakes but with DSI bumps installed at the upper corners, as well as a one-piece canopy. First disclosed by US Office of Naval Intellegence (ONI) in 1997 as XXJ, J-20 is the 4th generation multi-role fighter to enter the service around 2015. Since 90s both CAC/611 Institute and SAC/601 Institute had been working their own designs for a twin-engine multi-role heavy fighter with stealth capability and maneuverability comparable to American F-22. It was speculated that 601 Institute was working on a "tri-plane" design based on canard/conventional layout/V-shape tailfin while 611 Institute working on a design based on canard/tailless delta wing/all moving V-shape tailfin/side DSI/bump inlet layout. All designs were expected to feature an internal weapon bay to reduce RCS, which has been speculated to be <0.05m2 (head-on). It was also rumored that J-20 could initially be powered by two 13,200kg/WS-10 class turbofan engines with TVC nozzles which would result in a normal TO weight exceeding 20t. J-20 also incoporates an advanced FBW system fully integrated with the fire-control and the engine systems. Its fire-control radar is expected to be AESA (Type 1475/KLJ5?). The aircraft may feature a "pure" glass cockpit (a single F-35 style color LCD display and a wide-angle holographic HUD). Many of these subsystems have been tested onboard J-10B to speed up the development (see above). Russian assistance has been speculated in terms of softwore support for calculating the RCS of various designs, as well as the rumored supply of Salyut 99M2 turbofan engine (14,000kg class) to power the prototypes, if the domestic engine (such as improved WS-10A) fails to meet the schedule. The overall performance of J-20 is thought to be superior to Russian T-50 (stealth) but still inferior to Amereican F-22 (electronics & supercruise). It was reported in November 2006 that a T/W=10 17,000kg class turbofan (WS-15/"large thrust") is being developed for J-20. In August 2008 it was reported that 611 Institute was selected to be the main contractor for the development of J-20 and 601 Institute as the sub-contractor. Subsequently a full-scale metal mockup was built at CAC. One rumor in May 2010 claimed that 611 Institute started to construct the first prototype, which was expected to fly by the end of 2010, even though the full configuration model won't fly until a few years later. The latest news indicated that the first two prototypes (#2001 & 2002) have been constructed and the first high-speed taxiing trial by 2001 took place on December 22, 2010.
 
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