J-35A fighter (PLAAF) + FC-31

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Maybe they can, though honestly i am sceptical.
The problem is that it's very hard to verify. Performance of China's weapons and especially commercial electronics is out in the open.
Sustainance rates of stealth aircraft can't be verified - either until there are similar publications (which is impossible), or until we see China going into a war which will actually strain it's military.

The only thing I'll say, is that readiness rates of US 4th gen aircraft has also fallen significantly*. This isn't everything, but I think it's strong evidence that USAF's inability to transition to 5th gen smoothly is tied strongly to institutional decay rather than something inherent to the complexity of 5th gen aircraft.

By contrast, China's capabilities are rising. It is integrating more complex aircraft, more various types of them, all while managing to keep older aircraft in very good shape. At least visually. They've also weather several serious reforms in the last few years. That says a lot.

*Yes, some of that is down to age, budgets, all kinds of contextual factors, but...

Well, I think I made my point sufficiently clear.
 

zyklon

Senior Member
Registered Member
With all respect, let's not overuse this card.
Yes, F-35/F-22 readiness rates suck - when compared to non-5 numbers. Assuming that PLAAF 5th gen readiness is stellar is a step too far.
For example, a simple reason why USMC numbers are low is that their variant isn't just B, it's some of the earliest planes within the fleet.

The age of American F-35 airframes might affect readiness to some degree, but it ain't the most impactful factor in play, at least per the USG.

According to the
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on F-35 readiness — or lack thereof — that I previously cited, the F-35 is a hangar queen first and foremost due to:

Insufficient spares and consumables in the supply system.
Maintenance philosophy and program not optimized to reduce workload or aircraft downtime.
Industrial base capacity constrained for repairs and parts.

This is not at all surprising given the embarrassing realities brought forth by decades of US industrial decay, which inevitably impact the DoD's capacity for sourcing spare parts essential to maintaining, repairing and otherwise sustaining its F-35A/B/C fleets.

OTOH, considering where the People's Republic's industrial base currently stands, the PLAAF and PLANAF are almost certainly outperforming their American counterparts in terms of fifth generation fighter readiness, ceteris paribus.
 

AlexYe

Senior Member
Registered Member
Su-57s would basically drop like flies were they to face off in the air.
I will say again, that for PAF/pakistan, in my opinion, the counter/establishing status quo/threat arent potential S57s, but the dams canals india is poised to build blocking indus waters..
Recently 2 days ago there was a local conf with many invitees from various governments called just to make this point clear that Pakistan consider this an existential crisis and will fight a war if its not stopped peacefully.
PLAAF is still inferior numerically to USAF in 5 gens
F35 is at like 25% readiness rate, and its not just USAF having this issues, its world over.
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You can find other F35 related stories from other countries having readiness issues,
Why? One of the big reasons Because the main repair / support /maintenance stuff is all handled by select few Lockheed staff, they have to be dispatched to sites and there arent enough of them to handle the needs world over, not even for USAF.
Airforce cant do shit about F35s themselves.


Even if PLAAF readiness rates are at like 50% atleast THEY CAN REPAIR without having to wait for the McDonalds repair guy to arrive 2 weeks later.
 

tphuang

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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No matter the clues, statements like that should not be considered in the same bullpark of data as congressial reports. Peer level reports in China are just not in a public domain.

There's more than enough important F-35 people between major forums and reddit. Just by them alone, F-35 program would be unquestionable.
that person is a really good source and likely better than declassified congressional reports. So yeah, you should take his statement a little more seriously.
 

Wrought

Captain
Registered Member
that person is a really good source and likely better than declassified congressional reports. So yeah, you should take his statement a little more seriously.

Good source, yes, but caution is nonetheless warranted. In the same breath, he said:

They don't actually fly them, you know, as much as we fly say F-22s up in Elmendorf or something, so they're not going to be running down that sustainment quite as fast.

Yet folks here also proudly talk about PLAAF pilots outflying USAF in training hours. Not everything is true for all units and all aircraft at all times; there are nuances involved with F-22 vs F-35 fleets and so forth. But at the end of the day, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Good source, yes, but caution is nonetheless warranted. In the same breath, he said:



Yet folks here also proudly talk about PLAAF pilots outflying USAF in training hours. Not everything is true for all units and all aircraft at all times; there are nuances involved with F-22 vs F-35 fleets and so forth. But at the end of the day, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
The PLAAF can be flying a lot more in average training hours than the USAF and the F-22 specifically can also be accumulating more average flight hours than the J-20 and F-22 mission readiness rates can also be lower. These are not contradicting conditions. The PLAAF could just be doing more of its tactical employment training through other airframes (there’s probably a decent share of 5th gen tactical training exercises that don’t absolutely need a 5th gen plane), and the USAF could just be putting more hours on F-22 airframes that aren’t at mission ready states (mission ready is not the same condition as flight worthy).
 
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Wrought

Captain
Registered Member
The PLAAF can be flying a lot more in average training hours than the USAF and the F-22 specifically can also be accumulating more average flight hours than the J-20 and F-22 mission readiness rates can also be lower. These are not contradicting conditions. The PLAAF could just be doing more of its training through other airframes, and the USAF could just be putting more hours on F-22 airframes that aren’t at mission ready states (mission ready is not the same condition as flight worthy).

Yes, that's why I said there are nuances involved. Also note that the conversation was about F-35 readiness rates, not F-22.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
I will say again, that for PAF/pakistan, in my opinion, the counter/establishing status quo/threat arent potential S57s, but the dams canals india is poised to build blocking indus waters..
Recently 2 days ago there was a local conf with many invitees from various governments called just to make this point clear that Pakistan consider this an existential crisis and will fight a war if its not stopped peacefully.

F35 is at like 25% readiness rate, and its not just USAF having this issues, its world over.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
View attachment 177462

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You can find other F35 related stories from other countries having readiness issues,
Why? One of the big reasons Because the main repair / support /maintenance stuff is all handled by select few Lockheed staff, they have to be dispatched to sites and there arent enough of them to handle the needs world over, not even for USAF.
Airforce cant do shit about F35s themselves.


Even if PLAAF readiness rates are at like 50% atleast THEY CAN REPAIR without having to wait for the McDonalds repair guy to arrive 2 weeks later.
I was curious about the point raised here so I did do a search across the world for F-35 readiness:

UK: 33%
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Australia: 30%
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Japan: 51.5% (in 2024, down from 69% in 2021)
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Israel: 90%
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I think if Israel's numbers are true then it proves with sufficient priority and preference in resources F-35 can indeed have very high readiness. Perhaps it's even a contributing factor for why the readiness is so low in some other countries.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
I was curious about the point raised here so I did do a search across the world for F-35 readiness:

UK: 33%
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Australia: 30%
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Japan: 51.5% (in 2024, down from 69% in 2021)
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Israel: 90%
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I think if Israel's numbers are true then it proves with sufficient priority and preference in resources F-35 can indeed have very high readiness. Perhaps it's even a contributing factor for why the readiness is so low in some other countries.
There might be differences in methodology, no? Different tolerances for what constitutes “readiness.”
 
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