J-35A fighter (PLAAF) + FC-31 thread

[FriedRiceNSpice]

If the J-10C encounters a Rafale squadron with an advanced and complete air combat system, it is likely to only be able to strike a draw.

In that case, I would believe the performance of the system to be more important than the performance of the individual fighters within the system. The side with superior sensors, more resilient data links, and better EW/counter-EW capabilities would emerge on top. Missile capabilities may also be more important than fighter capabilities in a system on system engagement.

 

[AndrewS]

If the J-10C encounters a Rafale squadron with an advanced and complete air combat system, it is likely to only be able to strike a draw. The J-35 can form a crushing advantage over Rafale fighter jets in aerial combat and effectively counter fifth generation fighter jets, as well as more advanced integrated air defense systems.And from the previously deleted tweets, it can also be seen that the Pakistani military also values the early warning aircraft system.

But the complete Rafale system doesn't have 2-way CEC datalinks between the Rafale, AWACs, missiles and SAM radars?

So a complete Rafale system should still lose to a complete J-10 battle network.

 

[NorthKimBestKim]

PRC should not export the fighter over the next few years at least. After that, it should always be somewhat watered down version even though PRC will be ready to start mass producing J-50 and J-36 in early 2030s. But PRC needs number for itself. That is most important.

Look at the countries that have been very export-oriented but neglected their own needs. That would be Russia, France and Germany. Not that I care about French or German defence suffering, but Russia's direction was clearly wrong and it affects PRC to some degree (again, Russians always make mistakes that lasts for many years) and the problem was that Russia was exporting a lot, and now has serious problems with advancing in Ukraine, and they lost Syria after 9 years.

You have India and Algeria that has far more T-90 MBTs than Russia.
You have India with Vikra-carrier that Russia sold to them, and even though Vikra sucks, Kuznetsov sucks even more, but Vikra gave India a platform so they could build Vikrant.
Then you have Russia giving India nuclear subs on a 10-year lease. That's totally retarded.
Then you have Russia selling so many different type of Su-30 fighters that other countries again, namely India have more of those than Russia, albeit Russia has more Su-35, but that pretty much it.

Don't let me start with Improved Kilo class SSK. Russia sold a serious number of those whilst having old "standard" Kilos themselves. Again, big mistake. Only recently, Russia has introduced several Improved Kilos, but they are no longer modern as they were before.

Another mistake, selling S-400 to Turkey. Etc.

Then Russia is selling "Grigorovich" (Talwar) to India, whilst having serious problems with producting enough frigates for Russia's needs.

I can go on, but you get the point. PRC cannot have a situation where they're exporting a unit, in this case J-35 whilst having almost none themselves.
PRC need to cover their own needs first, and we are talking hundreds of J-35. PRC has the chance now to surpass the U.S. number of 5th gen aircraft and to start producing 6th gen before the U.S. All this at the same time.

 

[FriedRiceNSpice]

PRC should not export the fighter over the next few years at least. After that, it should always be somewhat watered down version even though PRC will be ready to start mass producing J-50 and J-36 in early 2030s. But PRC needs number for itself. That is most important.

Look at the countries that have been very export-oriented but neglected their own needs. That would be Russia, France and Germany. Not that I care about French or German defence suffering, but Russia's direction was clearly wrong and it affects PRC to some degree (again, Russians always make mistakes that lasts for many years) and the problem was that Russia was exporting a lot, and now has serious problems with advancing in Ukraine, and they lost Syria after 9 years.

You have India and Algeria that has far more T-90 MBTs than Russia.
You have India with Vikra-carrier that Russia sold to them, and even though Vikra sucks, Kuznetsov sucks even more, but Vikra gave India a platform so they could build Vikrant.
Then you have Russia giving India nuclear subs on a 10-year lease. That's totally retarded.
Then you have Russia selling so many different type of Su-30 fighters that other countries again, namely India have more of those than Russia, albeit Russia has more Su-35, but that pretty much it.

Don't let me start with Improved Kilo class SSK. Russia sold a serious number of those whilst having old "standard" Kilos themselves. Again, big mistake. Only recently, Russia has introduced several Improved Kilos, but they are no longer modern as they were before.

Another mistake, selling S-400 to Turkey. Etc.

Then Russia is selling "Grigorovich" (Talwar) to India, whilst having serious problems with producting enough frigates for Russia's needs.

I can go on, but you get the point. PRC cannot have a situation where they're exporting a unit, in this case J-35 whilst having almost none themselves.
PRC need to cover their own needs first, and we are talking hundreds of J-35. PRC has the chance now to surpass the U.S. number of 5th gen aircraft and to start producing 6th gen before the U.S. All this at the same time.

If exports are able to drive additional production capacity for J-35A, then that increased production capacity would also translate over to more rapidly scaling up production of J-35As for the PLAAF during a wartime scenario. Most importantly, there will be a larger pool of skilled workers that can be immediately put to work producing more J-35As with minimum refilling. Exporting J-35AE/FC-31 can be viewed as essentially subsidizing additional production capacity during wartime. Eventual exports of J-35A/FC-31 to PAF would be a risk management strategy towards any potential Indian military involvement in any future conflicts.

 

[siegecrossbow]

PRC should not export the fighter over the next few years at least. After that, it should always be somewhat watered down version even though PRC will be ready to start mass producing J-50 and J-36 in early 2030s. But PRC needs number for itself. That is most important.

Look at the countries that have been very export-oriented but neglected their own needs. That would be Russia, France and Germany. Not that I care about French or German defence suffering, but Russia's direction was clearly wrong and it affects PRC to some degree (again, Russians always make mistakes that lasts for many years) and the problem was that Russia was exporting a lot, and now has serious problems with advancing in Ukraine, and they lost Syria after 9 years.

You have India and Algeria that has far more T-90 MBTs than Russia.
You have India with Vikra-carrier that Russia sold to them, and even though Vikra sucks, Kuznetsov sucks even more, but Vikra gave India a platform so they could build Vikrant.
Then you have Russia giving India nuclear subs on a 10-year lease. That's totally retarded.
Then you have Russia selling so many different type of Su-30 fighters that other countries again, namely India have more of those than Russia, albeit Russia has more Su-35, but that pretty much it.

Don't let me start with Improved Kilo class SSK. Russia sold a serious number of those whilst having old "standard" Kilos themselves. Again, big mistake. Only recently, Russia has introduced several Improved Kilos, but they are no longer modern as they were before.

Another mistake, selling S-400 to Turkey. Etc.

Then Russia is selling "Grigorovich" (Talwar) to India, whilst having serious problems with producting enough frigates for Russia's needs.

I can go on, but you get the point. PRC cannot have a situation where they're exporting a unit, in this case J-35 whilst having almost none themselves.
PRC need to cover their own needs first, and we are talking hundreds of J-35. PRC has the chance now to surpass the U.S. number of 5th gen aircraft and to start producing 6th gen before the U.S. All this at the same time.

AVIC is state owned. The problem you mentioned does not apply.

 

[gelgoog]

PRC needs number for itself. That is most important.

China is producing around a hundred J-20 a year. I expect J-35 production to ramp up to similar numbers. We just do not know what will be the J-35 requirement. Will it replace the J-10 and J-15 on a 1:1 basis or will some J-10 be replaced with J-20 aircraft?

In the short term I think China would be better off exporting J-10s second hand while replacing their J-10 with the J-35. But eventually J-35 will be exported.

Sending the J-35 to Pakistan will only push India to get its own 5th gens earlier. And this could lead them further into the arms of the US MIC. It will also put further economic strain on Pakistan.

Look at the countries that have been very export-oriented but neglected their own needs. That would be Russia, France and Germany. Not that I care about French or German defence suffering, but Russia's direction was clearly wrong and it affects PRC to some degree (again, Russians always make mistakes that lasts for many years) and the problem was that Russia was exporting a lot, and now has serious problems with advancing in Ukraine, and they lost Syria after 9 years.

Russia has like 400 modern Flankers of Su-30/34/35 types.

Any faults in the Ukrainian campaign were because of doctrine. Not lack of platforms. Russia underinvested in standoff ammunitions and recon pods.

In a way this is understandable. Russia's GLONASS satnav constellation only recovered by the mid 2010s. It was unreliable for precision guidance before then. Even today it is less accurate than GPS or Beidou.

As for the Syrian campaign, no matter how much air force you have without a ground component and local forces support you won't win a war. Economically Syria was a basket case. The Turks cut water to coastal Syria, and the whole region is getting drier climate. Food production in coastal Syria collapsed. At the same time the farming regions near the Euphrates and Syrian oil in the interior were captured by the US sponsored SDF Kurds. The moment they decided not to go further into rebel controlled areas they lost the war.

You have India and Algeria that has far more T-90 MBTs than Russia.

I doubt this is true anymore in the case of Algeria, and soon for India as well.
Russia modernized a lot of T-72 to T-72B3M standard before 2022. That cost like a third of the price for much the same capability.

Then you have Russia selling so many different type of Su-30 fighters that other countries again, namely India have more of those than Russia, albeit Russia has more Su-35, but that pretty much it.

The RuAF back then had a lot of Su-27P aircraft so they did not see much point in it. But Russia still bought over a hundred Su-30s.

Don't let me start with Improved Kilo class SSK. Russia sold a serious number of those whilst having old "standard" Kilos themselves. Again, big mistake. Only recently, Russia has introduced several Improved Kilos, but they are no longer modern as they were before.

The Russians have like a dozen modern Kilos. More than all European modern diesel subs combined. They are also introducing the Lada which is a much more modern design.

Another mistake, selling S-400 to Turkey. Etc.

I doubt the export S-400 is the same as the one Russia itself uses.

Then Russia is selling "Grigorovich" (Talwar) to India, whilst having serious problems with producting enough frigates for Russia's needs.

Initially less Talwar frigates were planned to be sold. Then Ukraine stopped sales of marine gas turbines to Russia after 2014. So Russia got a lot of Grigorovich hulls without engines. They figured out by the time they got their own engines for them they could be building Admiral Gorshkov frigates instead. So they just sold those hulls to India. Which then bought the gas turbines from Ukraine.

 

[banjex]

Look at the countries that have been very export-oriented but neglected their own needs. That would be Russia, France and Germany. Not that I care about French or German defence suffering, but Russia's direction was clearly wrong and it affects PRC to some degree (again, Russians always make mistakes that lasts for many years) and the problem was that Russia was exporting a lot, and now has serious problems with advancing in Ukraine, and they lost Syria after 9 years.

I don't think you understand Russia's context. For many years, they didn't have money to buy anything. Their only production was for export orders. /OT

 

[amchan]

PRC should not export the fighter over the next few years at least. After that, it should always be somewhat watered down version even though PRC will be ready to start mass producing J-50 and J-36 in early 2030s. But PRC needs number for itself. That is most important.

Look at the countries that have been very export-oriented but neglected their own needs. That would be Russia, France and Germany. Not that I care about French or German defence suffering, but Russia's direction was clearly wrong and it affects PRC to some degree (again, Russians always make mistakes that lasts for many years) and the problem was that Russia was exporting a lot, and now has serious problems with advancing in Ukraine, and they lost Syria after 9 years.

You have India and Algeria that has far more T-90 MBTs than Russia.
You have India with Vikra-carrier that Russia sold to them, and even though Vikra sucks, Kuznetsov sucks even more, but Vikra gave India a platform so they could build Vikrant.
Then you have Russia giving India nuclear subs on a 10-year lease. That's totally retarded.
Then you have Russia selling so many different type of Su-30 fighters that other countries again, namely India have more of those than Russia, albeit Russia has more Su-35, but that pretty much it.

Don't let me start with Improved Kilo class SSK. Russia sold a serious number of those whilst having old "standard" Kilos themselves. Again, big mistake. Only recently, Russia has introduced several Improved Kilos, but they are no longer modern as they were before.

Another mistake, selling S-400 to Turkey. Etc.

Then Russia is selling "Grigorovich" (Talwar) to India, whilst having serious problems with producting enough frigates for Russia's needs.

I can go on, but you get the point. PRC cannot have a situation where they're exporting a unit, in this case J-35 whilst having almost none themselves.
PRC need to cover their own needs first, and we are talking hundreds of J-35. PRC has the chance now to surpass the U.S. number of 5th gen aircraft and to start producing 6th gen before the U.S. All this at the same time.

Thats when they were super poor and needed foreign currency. If they didn't focus on exports, they would not have been able to keep the factories running.

 

[defenceman]

The US exports the F-35 so China should export the J-35. As simple as that.
Just degrading the software and RAM coatings could be enough.

Hi,
if China is exporting degrading J35 to XYZ country ( I’m sure not P) it will face hypothetically
a F35 or a Su57, what will e the outcome of that skirmish, and what will be the future export
effect if J35 loose against these jets because of the degradation, im sure China doesn’t want
to sell so,e thing which they don’t want to but I’m sure about that if they want capture the arms
market they will not be selling D grade kind of stuff
thank you

 

[Black Wolf]

After going through the last few pages of this thread, it's clear the discussion has drifted into speculative territory with some suggesting that the J-35A could be downgraded for Pakistan, or that China should wait until the J-36 or J-50 are in service before considering such exports. Others even floated the idea of potential intelligence leaks to the U.S. if the J-35A ever landed in Pakistan.

This kind of speculation usually stems from a lack of understanding of Pakistan’s internal structure and regional dynamics. Let’s be clear: Pakistan is not Iran, nor is it some unstable, fragmented state. The Pakistani military establishment maintains tight control over the entire spectrum from defense and intelligence to judiciary, bureaucracy, politics, and key industrial sectors. This grip has been firmly in place for decades. The idea of sabotage or leaks through such channels is far-fetched and frankly, disconnected from reality.

As for the notion of a "downgraded version" of the J-35A being exported to Pakistan, let me reiterate, as I’ve stated in other discussions (including the Indian Armed Forces thread): Pakistan does not procure platforms to match China’s inventory or prestige. It procures systems that suit its operational doctrine, regional threat environment, and force structure.

Whether it’s the J35A or any other weapon systems, these aren’t downgraded “consolation prizes.” They are fit-for-purpose platforms, selected to meet specific requirements and integrated into a cohesive, multi-origin defense ecosystem.

Pakistan armed forces strength has always come from how it uses its assets, not just what's written on a spec sheet. The recent operational outcomes clearly reflect that.