J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[Tomboy]

Ignore that spec sheet. The design was overhauled and the WS-15 was basically redeveloped from scratch since 2018.

Ah, ngl this makes much more sense for why WS-15 still isn't in service. So was that AECC rep literally lying through his teeth when he said WS-15 was in LRIP in 2023 lmao. This type of behaviour is something I expect from DRDO not AECC tbh. PS do you got any sources for this redesign and what it could mean? Would love to read up on this.

What is more important for the engine is the flight envelope, and the WS15 is even stronger than the F119. F135 does not belong to the same type of engine as WS15 and F119.

Well, flight envelope is important to an extent, and it's mostly related to the specific aerodynamics design of the blades etc which China is traditionally pretty good at. But more importantly is the overall efficiency of the engine which is closely coupled to the TIT, while a higher TIT is also required for better specific thrust which increases supercruise efficiency. There's a good reason why material science is considered the single most crucial field for aeroengines and why engine manufacturers spend billions on R&D to increase their engine's TIT just by a tiny bit.

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Ah, ngl this makes much more sense for why WS-15 still isn't in service. So was that AECC rep literally lying through his teeth when he said WS-15 was in LRIP in 2023 lmao. This type of behaviour is something I expect from DRDO not AECC tbh. PS do you got any sources for this redesign and what it could mean? Would love to read up on this.

Allegedly the WS-10C was so performant that it scratched (or even exceeded) the original design specifications of the WS-15, and apparently 606 isn't happy with how unambitious the original engine core proposal from 624 was and came up with a new 35 kg/s core.

That's what I can remember off the top of my head (and it might very well be wrong so take it with a grain of salt).

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

The year is 2083. China is test flying the world's first 9th generation fighter. Rumors indicate that the prototype uses WS-10Y engines...

Maybe I'm on the copium, but there's a way to reconcile this. It could be true that the WS-15 entered LRIP in 2023 and the first batch of J-20A will use WS-10Cs. If CAC switches over all J-20 production to the A variant, then that's more than 100 airframes per year (perhaps up to 120), meaning 200-240 engines, not including spares. Production of the WS-15 might not have reached sufficient mass to supply that many engines, so we'll have to wait a while for the ramp up and inventory to be stocked.

 

[Tomboy]

The year is 2083. China is test flying the world's first 9th generation fighter. Rumors indicate that the prototype uses WS-10Y engines...

Maybe I'm on the copium, but there's a way to reconcile this. It could be true that the WS-15 entered LRIP in 2023 and the first batch of J-20A will use WS-10Cs. If CAC switches over all J-20 production to the A variant, then that's more than 100 airframes per year (perhaps up to 120), meaning 200-240 engines, not including spares. Production of the WS-15 might not have reached sufficient mass to supply that many engines, so we'll have to wait a while for the ramp up and inventory to be stocked.

More realistically is to use up old WS-10 stock when production switch over while stockpiling WS-15s to allow transition without dropping production rate as a result of WS-15 still being in LRIP initially, but be prepped for the worst-case scenario that WS-15 is delayed once again.

 

[Hitomi]

How likely is the WS-10CXX (assuming it actually exists) to actually match the thrust of the WS-15 at this point but instead does this at a shortened MTBO, just like how the WS-10C shortened the MTBO to squeeze out a bit more performance, just that the MTBO of the WS-10CXX is now at the MTBO of the initial WS-10C with difference being attributed to tech from WS-15, since this WS-10CXX still has to match the electrical output of the WS-15s to power the J-20A avionics?

 

[Alfa_Particle]

How likely is the WS-10CXX (assuming it actually exists) to actually match the thrust of the WS-15 at this point but instead does this at a shortened MTBO, just like how the WS-10C shortened the MTBO to squeeze out a bit more performance, just that the MTBO of the WS-10CXX is now at the MTBO of the initial WS-10C with difference being attributed to tech from WS-15, since this WS-10CXX still has to match the electrical output of the WS-15s to power the J-20A avionics?

Now that I think of it, there's always been this rumour that the WS-15's core is a deeply refined/loosely based on the WS-10 with a 35 kg/s corrected mass flow rate core floating around (basically enlarged the Taihang's core by 1.4x with an OPR of 28-30 and a 3-6-1-1 configuration).

What if that's not actually the WS-15 but the rumoured WS-10CXX?

 

[Tomboy]

Now that I think of it, there's always been this rumour that the WS-15's core is a deeply refined/loosely based on the WS-10 with a 35 kg/s corrected mass flow rate core floating around (basically enlarged the Taihang's core by 1.4x with an OPR of 28-30 and a 3-6-1-1 configuration).

What if that's not actually the WS-15 but the rumoured WS-10CXX?

Wait so WS-15 isn't being redesigned but instead the rumors of 2018 redesigns were actually just WS-10D or whatever this new engine is called. Or was the rumor about redesigns separate from the rumors about a new core

 

[Ironhide]

Allegedly the WS-10C was so performant that it scratched (or even exceeded) the original design specifications of the WS-15, and apparently 606 isn't happy with how unambitious the original engine core proposal from 624 was and came up with a new 35 kg/s core.

That's what I can remember off the top of my head (and it might very well be wrong so take it with a grain of salt).

So now we have three confirmed J20A/S airframes with ws10xx ?

 

[Alfa_Particle]

Wait so WS-15 isn't being redesigned but instead the rumors of 2018 redesigns were actually just WS-10D or whatever this new engine is called. Or was the rumor about redesigns separate from the rumors about a new core

Oh no, the WS-15 was redesigned alright, just a matter of how.

On one hand, there's the rumour with the enlarged Taihang core (which may actually be the WS-10CXX instead), on the other you've got claims a whole new clean-sheet design, and along with other less mainstream claims.

 

[Maikeru]

Do we have a handle on the capability difference between WS10C+ and WS15 equipped J20A?