The Kashmir conflict 2025.

[GulfLander]

2nd front?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1923827853306568706

 

[Gloire_bb]

Does the rest of the world possess working Su-35 radars to study or functional Su-35s to exercise against?

There were Russians themselves over Syria.
I personally feel least conveinced by anecdotal evidence on EW - Indians themselves boasted a lot, how rafales jammed su-35s in Egypt. Su-35s never even been there, and as for rafale (and indians) - you can see how it has eventually turned out.

And recent events do suggest Chinese EW capabilities are very likely to be superior to at least European EW capabilities. PLAN's ability to counter jamming by Growlers indicate it wouldn't be entirely improbable for Chinese EW capabilities to have surpassed American capabilities as well. Would it be too far fetched that a nation with the largest electronics industry in the world and the most advanced software capabilities by far be the top 1 or 2 in EW?

I wasn't there, but i am sceptical this action involved epic fighter EW fight the way it's portrayed. Ranges were so extreme, that rafales either couldn't see opponents at all, or even a relatively mild noise type countermeasure could've been enough. Rbe2 is weak in the first place, and it's a relatively... underperforming as AESA, because the french changed front end without replacing the radome.
I.e. fighter jammer, in my opinion, is the least likely MVP.
If there's something with potential - it's big datalink jammers. Especially since it already happened last time.

P.s. state of the art AESA destroyer screwing over poor growler without NGJ is kinda normal to me.
Yes, growler is generating jamming signal, but in the end it's 1960s basic pod working off RATs. Destroyer is just a bigger dog.

 

[AndrewS]

There needs to be measures to ensure PAF survivability assuming enemy munitions will get through. Maybe hardened hanger or even underground hanger dug into the mountains like Sweden air force.

Or like the 40 Chinese airbases in mountains or underground?

 

[AndrewS]

Hello Hello Good Evening or Good Morning or Good Between,

After forced to spend lots of time on this subject over all sorts of media, I feel I am one of the better arm-chair generals in modern warfare in the context of this recent Bharat Pak conflict.

In this 3rd decade of the 21st century, air combat between two military peers is essentially video games of real-time long-distance loosely-coupled seamlessly-integrated kill-chains, which are comprised of all sorts of sensors and relays and actuators.

For those who have hands-on experience in complex industrial system integration, which have similar aspects of system engineering, it is rather simple and straightforward in replay and postmortem of this air war.

The real-time aspect includes but is not limited to sensors and communications that enable situation awareness. Pak has demonstrated one kill-chain of HQ-9 radar detection => ZDK-03 AWACS => J-10C => PL-15E that can be guided by its jet or AWACS. Maybe throw in some electronics warfare. Everything works the way as advertised, no more no less. If Bharat had similar kill-chain, then we should have seen at least some results from the Bharat side. The fact that it was 5:0 or 6:0 or whatever indicates that the Bharat air battle system is inferior. That is it, simple and easy. It really doesn't matter what Rafale should be or might be. Or it doest not even matter much which pilots are better trained. Rather it is sensor detection, data ingestion, real-time analysis and communication and decision, pilot pushing some button(s), missile guided by the system fly toward target in range. Game over.

The whole battle was a very simple replay of the system integration capabilities. The real complex knowledge or innovation resides in each component or link or station that are seamlessly integrated for shooting the target.

I can simplistically conclude that, after this air battle example, any isolated piece of weapons is probably only good for photos or videos or shows or propagandas, for which why we are here. It really does not matter much if a system is comprised of Country-A weapons or Country-B weapons, as long as weapons can be seamlessly integrated as a capable kill-chain.

The real question who (countries or institutions) produces and delivers such air combat systems in this world right here right now. In this case study, it was one-sited slaughter simple because A used such kill-chains agaisnt B who didn't have.

I think kill web or kill mesh is a more accurate term.

 

[ougoah]

I don't buy that.

1. It's insanely stupid to think you can use your air force to attack another country also with an air force and assume you won't be engaged by that air force. This doesn't even count as an ambush just like you can't ambush someone by swinging back in a fight they just started; this is natural expected self-defense against attack.

2. Nobody brings 70+ jets to bomb terrorist camps. When you bring a WWII-sized air wing, you're expecting huge trouble.

3. The sister of a dead Rafale pilot said that her brother's last text to her was that he was going to "teach the Pakis a lesson." He knew this fight was to involve a lot more than some terrorist camps.

Do we have scrutinised evidence that one of the Rafale pilots sent that to his sister?

 

[ougoah]

I always asked myselfe why they send the Rafales on a bombing mission and not as cover in the air, but a former Rafale Pilot on Youtube claimed that the Rafale can only carry 2 Meteors. Does anybody know if this is true?

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If this is true, its a huge problem for the Rafale and makes me wonder if one could even call it a true 4.5 multirole aircraft, 2 BVRAAM are maybe enough to force your enemy into the defensive but not for any true air to air engagement. I know the MICAs are also BVRAAMs but their are to outmached compared to Meteors, Pl15 or even modern AIM-120 AMRAMs. And just for fun few examples for possible Eurofighter Loadouts to laugh at the French omnirole stealth fighter.View attachment 152422

I think you're confused. The Rafale can carry a lot more than 3 drop tanks plus 2 meteor AAMs. What you're showing for the Eurofighter is "beast mode". Beast mode is not useful or realistic. The Rafale pilot says if they can carry 2 meteors to an air superiority fight, they are happy. That means giving those 2 meteors the best chance at doing damage. Flying beast mode kills your range by a LONG shot and kills your energy - departing energy on those missiles. It should also kill your altitude and speed to position. All things that degrade the effectiveness of those BVR AAMs.

J-10C can carry 6x PL-15 missiles with 2x PL-10 and 3x drop tanks in its known "beast mode". The problem with this is like having 2 kids vs having 6 kids with the exact same resources available. Which scenario, assuming all factors equal and kids talents etc are identical, do you think produces the better overall outcome?

Beast mode was entirely some USAF fanboy bullshittery joke made to fool NAFO morons who didn't pass year 9 science class. There is always a price to be paid. beast mode is never used in real life and I applaud that French Rafale pilot for injecting some semblance of reality and truth to the fanboy echochambers.

In real combat it's unlikely late model F-15s would even carry more than 6 BVR missiles and the F-15 is an absolute champ at doing this beast mode. The only 4th gen fighter that matches is Flanker series with up to 10 BVRs. Main reason is need for fuel tank and aircraft's comparative internal fuel storage volumes. There were talks about Flanker's performance being significantly degraded carrying this many due to the fuselage tunnel's aerodynamic purpose being compromised but I don't know the accuracy of that take.

Light fighters like J-10 would rarely go beyond carrying 4 BVRs to an air superiority fight without unnecessarily doing an injustice to those missiles. Drop tanks are more important than fanboys realise and total number of missiles are less important. Certainly not to the extent it's discussed online esp relating to "beast mode" conversations which have no place in any serious discussion.

Rafale pilot is 100% correct although it could potentially be extended to 4. I think he might be underselling Rafale's ability to carry 4 and depart good energy but it's a breath of fresh air to internet morons talking about stupid numbers of BVRs being carried to the point of stalling a fighter.



beats




It's 2 or 4 shots that can push opposition fighters back or even score a kill vs 10 missiles off the rail at barely mach 1 and half the altitude that get "defeated" by 2 turns of the targeted fighter.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

If India is serious about ever becoming an actual military power, it will need to rely on indigenous manufacturing and R&D capabilities. At the minimum, India needs the ability to produce fully domestically any foreign hardware that it licenses. It may be a long and painful process, but there are no shortcuts to acquiring true military power.

Furthermore, Russian radar, avionics, networking, and electronics capabilities are non-competetive (Russia's ability to manufacture AESA radar *may* actually be behind that of India), and Europeans are also starting to fall behind in these areas. The only project of value I see for the Indians would be Su-57 with full transfer of technology and eventual 100% domestic production.

Su-57 has multiple AESA panels and Russia has multiple 65 nm fabs capabilities that India doesn't. They also have a mature Soviet era 0.18 - 1 um industry for mixed signal and RF uses (i.e. MIC uses).

India only has a single 180 nm silicon fab as its best. There is no comparison between the 2. Based on the state of their semiconductor industries, India is far behind Russia.

 

[enroger]

Or like the 40 Chinese airbases in mountains or underground?

Something like that. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, I like to think of total war being the bottom line of any military planning, small scale skirmishes like this conflict is just a side show.

China has lots of strategic depth, lots of airfields lots of assets, yet even China was that paranoid against Soviet threat; Pakistan has little strategic depth, small number of airfields and small number of assets, Pakistan should be ten times as paranoid as China was

 

[AndrewS]

Either Chinese EW is massively ahead of the rest of the world, or one of rumors appears to be wrong.

Especially in case of the J-10c, which without self defense pod doesn't carry much in terms EW in the first place, as even ARMs require a yet another, separate pod.
No volume; there's a solid reason behind the well known "D" prototype.

There's a J-10D prototype?

 

[Gloire_bb]

There's a J-10D prototype?

“D” was specifically in quotation marks(with D referring to 电, not consecutive letter). There's no such official version.

I'm talking about the prototype with electronics board in aerodynamic shadow on the back, like some F-16s.

Appearance of this board is a sure sign there's no volume inside anymore.