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FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just look at how China has played the game; despite the provocations coming from the west, it hasn't fallen for the bait and has made the west look silly. China has focused on itself, increased its economic and military strength and has exercised patience.

Comparing Apples to Oranges. The western provocations with China has so far remained mild. Provocations on Russia are existential. If you want to see comparisons. See what happens if the US says the ROC will join NATO (like they did with Ukraine decades ago) and the ROC starts saying we will initiate the process of joining NATO. We will immediately be heading towards a crisis.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
I don't know if you're trolling but this is laughable. White settlers came to my continent and forcefully settled, they used their superior tech to subdue natives. Aren't the Ukrainians the natives in those lands? If Ukrainians moved to Russia and tried to colonize Russia and Russia fought back then your point would be valid. This is why reasonable people cheer the Soviet Union fighting and defeating the Nazis.

When the Europeans decided to carve up the continent, they created a bunch of artificial colonial constructs that put many ethnic groups together that had no business being together and used artificial boundaries to separate brothers. In South West Nigeria, you have the Yoruba who have far more in common with their Yoruba brothers (and other similar groups) in neighboring Benin Republic than they do with Igbos, who are supposed to be their countrymen. Igbos have more in common with groups in southwest Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea than they do with Hausa, Fulani, Tiv, Urhobo, etc who they are supposed to share a country with. Benin Yorubas move to Nigeria and settle and Nigerian Yorubas do the same willingly. However, if the current President of Nigeria, Bola Tinubu, a Yoruba man, wakes up tomorrow and decides to roll tanks into Benin (which they could easily do as Nigeria has, by far, the most powerful military in West Africa) to unite Yorubas under the same country, the Beninese Yoruba would fight like hell and rightfully so.

Two groups may be historically linked but they've lived long enough in two different countries that you've got to be mad to want to forcefully subdue people who have enjoyed sovereignty for a long period of time. Russia needs to read the writing on the wall, focus on building itself and building good relations with its neighbors.
Ukrainian is a political concept. All Ukrainians can speak Russian, it is not analagous to Nigerian ethnicities at all.

But to answer your hypothetical. Yes, if a non Beninese man funded by CIA took control of Benin, declared it to be greater Israel and banned the Yoruba language, I would expect Nigeria to intervene on their behalf.

Bringing up imperialism, empire building or the USSR (which created the Ukrainian concept) are all non sequiturs.

The Donbass and Crimea are different. If Russia would have stopped there I wouldn't be critical of them. When it happened in 2014 I completely understood and I sided with them. What I criticize is their invasion of the whole country which I view as unnecessary. At that point, Ukraine couldn't join NATO so what was the point of the February 2022 invasion?
LOL. So invading Crimea is fine but the Donbass is where you draw the line. What's the difference between the two?

I thought you were some sort of NGO plant but it appears you actually are ignorant of what's going on.

Thankfully most Africans don't share your views.
 
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Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
Comparing Apples to Oranges. The western provocations with China has so far remained mild. Provocations on Russia are existential. If you want to see comparisons. See what happens if the US says the ROC will join NATO (like they did with Ukraine decades ago) and the ROC starts saying we will initiate the process of joining NATO. We will immediately be heading towards a crisis.
They can do that to Russia because Russia is a light weight economically. If China didn't make itself important to the world they'd do the same with Taiwan as well. Russia has nobody but itself to blame.
 

Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
The west's point died with USAID.
China does not care what they make the west "look like", China simply believes in winning before you fight, which, if you know Chinese history, never meant sitting back forever. History is full of barbarian tribes who mistaked China's passivity for pacifism, they're all dead.

Russia has as much right to liberate their land from European invaders as Palestinians has in liberating Palestine from the exactly same group of European invaders, the timing and method of their actions is their own prerogative and not for China to decide, but China can and will support both.
Liberating their lands? LOL! I thought this was a serious debate. Russians have a neighbor that's pissed off at them, and by the looks of things they haven't done the job of "liberation" after all these years. They should just sit down and accept reality, this liberation talk is for gullible folks. The Russians are Europeans with European tendencies of trying to dominate everything and everybody. You have the largest country on planet Earth but that's not enough, you're crying about Ukraine and citing historical claims from centuries ago. Don't make me laugh.

China cares what it makes the west looks like, they share the world with them and sell them products. Let's pipe down on the arrogance. The Chinese are playing the game the makes them hard to dispose of, if you believe the Chinese leadership don't sit down and plan strategy on how to deal with the west then I have a bridge on Brooklyn to sell you.
 

Viktorr

Just Hatched
Registered Member
The Donbass and Crimea are different. If Russia would have stopped there I wouldn't be critical of them. When it happened in 2014 I completely understood and I sided with them. What I criticize is their invasion of the whole country which I view as unnecessary. At that point, Ukraine couldn't join NATO so what was the point of the February 2022 invasion?
In 2022 Ukraine was waging war to bring Donbass under control. This war was massively supported by NATO with weapons, intelligence, mercenaries and money. Ukraine and NATO explicitly said that they would not honor the Minsk peace agreements and instead would solve the question militarily. Russia had two options. Let the Donbass republics fall to Kiev after which a military attack on Crimea would follow in time. Or join the war directly.
You can say that the Russian attack on Kiev was pointless as it didn't end the war. But after that, the Russian military campaign has been focused on the Donbass.
 

iewgnem

Senior Member
Registered Member
Liberating their lands? LOL! I thought this was a serious debate. Russians have a neighbor that's pissed off at them, and by the looks of things they haven't done the job of "liberation" after all these years. They should just sit down and accept reality, this liberation talk is for gullible folks. The Russians are Europeans with European tendencies of trying to dominate everything and everybody. You have the largest country on planet Earth but that's not enough, you're crying about Ukraine and citing historical claims from centuries ago. Don't make me laugh.

China cares what it makes the west looks like, they share the world with them and sell them products. Let's pipe down on the arrogance. The Chinese are playing the game the makes them hard to dispose of, if you believe the Chinese leadership don't sit down and plan strategy on how to deal with the west then I have a bridge on Brooklyn to sell you.
Israel is as much Palestine's neighbour as Ukraine is Russia's neighbour.

Palestine has as much need to care about how Israelis feel as Russia has in how Ukraine's European settlers feel

Lastly you really should learn a bit more depth about Chinese culture before assuming China sees the world the way you think they do. China has shown no mercy in any and all technological nor industrial field vis-a-vis the west because, at its core, China does not see the west as equals.
 
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Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
In 2022 Ukraine was waging war to bring Donbass under control. This war was massively supported by NATO with weapons, intelligence, mercenaries and money. Ukraine and NATO explicitly said that they would not honor the Minsk peace agreements and instead would solve the question militarily. Russia had two options. Let the Donbass republics fall to Kiev after which a military attack on Crimea would follow in time. Or join the war directly.
You can say that the Russian attack on Kiev was pointless as it didn't end the war. But after that, the Russian military campaign has been focused on the Donbass.
Russia was strong enough to hold on to Donbass, I could understand the grievance there. I was cheerleading when they snatched Crimea as well but that's where it should have stopped. Trying to invade the entire Ukraine was overdose. Keep the Donbass and Crimea and freeze the conflict, flare things up a little when Ukraine and NATO start trying some funny business.
 

FriedButter

Brigadier
Registered Member
They can do that to Russia because Russia is a light weight economically. If China didn't make itself important to the world they'd do the same with Taiwan as well. Russia has nobody but itself to blame.

No, this is where you are making the mistake of reckless negligences. Provoking an NUCLEAR SUPERPOWER into an COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE conflict puts the burden of guilt on you and NATO/US alone.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
They can do that to Russia because Russia is a light weight economically. If China didn't make itself important to the world they'd do the same with Taiwan as well. Russia has nobody but itself to blame.
Wait, so might makes right after all? I thought you were against Russia empire building?

So if Africans are weak economically, Europeans can start colonising you again?
 
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