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coolgod

coolgod

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GulfLander said:
"China proposes Putin-Trump summit to end Ukraine war, WSJ reports" reuters
By Mei Mei Chu and Ryan Woo, feb13, 2025
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The original source of that piece

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China Tries to Play the Role of Peacemaker in Ukraine​

U.S. and Europe would view Beijing’s proposal skeptically given its close ties to Moscow​

Chinese officials in recent weeks have floated a proposal to the Trump team through intermediaries to hold a summit between the two leaders and to facilitate peacekeeping efforts after an eventual truce, according to people in Beijing and Washington familiar with the matter.
The offer, however, is being met with skepticism in the U.S. and Europe, given deep concerns over the increasingly close ties between Beijing and Moscow.
On Wednesday, Trump said he had engaged with Putin directly to resolve the conflict. In a post on Truth Social, Trump said he had a “lengthy and highly productive phone call” with Putin and both leaders agreed to visit each other’s countries and to open immediate talks to end the war in Ukraine. “I believe this effort will lead to a successful conclusion, hopefully soon!” he wrote.
Trump later told reporters in the Oval Office that he and Putin will “meet also probably in Saudi Arabia the first time,” though he didn’t specify when.
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The Chinese offer, notably, envisions a U.S.-Russian summit without the involvement of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, according to the people in Beijing and Washington. The prospect of the U.S. negotiating the future of Ukraine and of European security with Russia and China is contrary to the West’s longstanding pledge to include Ukraine in any talks to decide its future.
The White House declined to confirm whether it had received China’s offer, but still rejected it. “Not viable at all,” a White House official said.
Asked about the proposal, the Chinese Embassy spokesman in Washington said he wasn’t aware of it, while adding: “We hope parties will work for de-escalation and strive for political settlement.”
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However, concern has grown in Europe over a potential great-power deal that ignores the demands of Kyiv. Any China-led trilateral summit with Putin and Trump is likely to fuel those concerns, with many European officials believing that Trump could sideline European interests as some kind of grand bargain with Beijing.
European officials have said consistently that any peace negotiations must include Ukrainian and European leaders, whose security would be directly affected.
Ukrainian officials, while recognizing Beijing’s sway over Moscow, have expressed wariness about any Chinese efforts to help end the war.
Zelensky last year accused China of undermining a Ukrainian-led peace summit in Switzerland.
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I think the recent hints are too clear.
 
G

gpt

Junior Member
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GulfLander said:
I watched a video of a former US official before claiming that even if China copied lumpsum the whole US system, if it will still be subject to containment if it shows sign of becoming a peer competitor(?) Cant remember the name of the guy tho.
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Of course. "PRC is the only country with the capability and will to challenge the United States across all domains" is something that is repeated over and over again for a reason.
 
N

name

Junior Member
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manqiangrexue said:
You say one thing but show something else. You show examples of how China does it, then how the West does it, and says that the Chinese way is ineffective. So you want them to be like the West.
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There are universal principles that work - being first, framing, word choice, repetition, simplification, working on emotion, social proof, etc. I want them to use effective universal principles. It has no nationality. The West uses the universal principles to win.

Is using a double blind research experiment setup becoming Western? You're conflating things.
manqiangrexue said:
But it's only ineffective to people who are too stupid to understand Chinese culture and sophistication. It's effective on loudmouths, like you.
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The usa successfully shifted the blame for their biological weapons attack onto the victim, China. They got a lot of Middle Easterners to believe China committed genocide on Uyghurs. People still believe tank man got run over by a tank. They duped Chinese people into thinking the West is a utopia. The vast majority of people are not high iq. Good luck with avoiding people getting duped.

manqiangrexue said:
It's not skill. They're stupid and they communicate best with stupid people. I have already demonstrated this. This is why it is particularly attractive to you.
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These are universal principles that work. Knowing what they are and when to use them is a skill. For example see
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- things that are repeated often are more likely to be believed whether they are true or false.

manqiangrexue said:
We win the hard power battles and the cultural victories follow. We don't chase cultural victories in and of themselves because that requires us to dumb ourselves down to communicate with stupid people and even then, you wouldn't get past the hard power control of Western countries over thier own territories.
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This is not for you to decide. China already wants to "tell China's story better". And the best way to do that is to use effective communication tactics that are universal. Tiktok is global and can reach users (possibly excluding usa in the future). Tiktok refugees at XHS show that Western hard power control is not invincible.

manqiangrexue said:
They didn't mean to lie; they thought it was the best. They thought they were the top. They overpromised. It's very easy to be boastful and end up a liar when things don't go according to plan. This is why the Chinese speak softly and leave room for error.
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The example is irrelevant to soft power / psychological warfare. You're talking about their internal speaking style within an organization. How is "- under promise, over deliver" going to help counter a Western psyop like the Xinjiang atrocity propaganda?

manqiangrexue said:
I think learning their culture and replacing ours with thiers is insecurity.
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Again, there are universal principles that work. No one is is saying China should lie, exaggerate, be a mouth cannon, spread hate, etc like the imperial West. For example, is it going to ruin our culture to use more repetition so an idea sticks? If so, how?

China has already westernized a lot. The politburo wears western suits and ties. Disney has theme parks brainwashing Chinese kids all day long inside China. We have night clubs, bars, raves, extreme feminism, plastic surgery to look more Western, a lot of Christian converts, celebrate Christmas, obesity, etc. Using universal communication principles should be the least of your worries.

manqiangrexue said:
Art and science cannot be treated the same. Absorbing others' culture causes their influence and domination over you; absorbing their technology allows you to undermine and eventually dominate them with hard power.
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That doesn't apply to using universal communication principles.

This is not going to change Chinese culture. It's not going to Westernize anyone. It's like you're freaking out over Indian mental-math shortcuts. Using the shortcuts changes nothing about Chinese culture. It just makes math easier to do.

Using universal communication principles doesn't change Chinese culture. It just makes influence easier to achieve. Do you understand?
 
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