Miscellaneous News

[coolgod]

Some of you need to chill the f**k out. The west have been poaching talent out of China for over 100 years. In the field of AI, Microsoft already moved a lot of talent out of China. What happened? DeepSeek still came out of China. Even if you buy out all of Deepseek, I guarantee you another team will take its place in China immediately.

Jai Hinds finally see their opening.

View attachment 144336

1. Use Chinese models because you can't make your own.
2. Bullshit Western VCs to give you money.
3. Use H1B geniuses to outcompete China.

Should Beijing be worried?

Meanwhile other Jai Hinds are warning us not to play into China's grand plan:

View attachment 144337

People are simply unwilling to believe that US AI companies are massively bloated and overvalued.

Aravind Srinivas was the guy defending his fellow Jai Hind Vivek a few weeks earlier by complaining about how he still wasn't approved for a green card in the US.

A timeline summary:

China releases videos of 2x six gen fighters
Vivek rants about dumb lazy Americans, needs to import more H1B to compete with China
MAGA gets mad and attacks Vivek
Aravind jumps in and says he hasn't gotten his green card yet, even though he's the founder of a super duper AI company

China release deepseek r1
Vivek gets fired from DOGE
Aravind openly proclaims MIGA (Make India Great Again) in AI

Jai Hinds just have a different way of thinking, at this point you can't tell if they are trolling or retarded, but it is easy to understand why a lot of people don't like them.

 

[horse]

It's more likely they will try to poach the DeepSeek talent by giving them absurd salaries and luring them to US shores. Destroying the company by splintering it. Maybe China should put export controls on AI talent.

That is not the problem here.

The problem here for the American AI players in LLM, is that the money is gone.

Hiring a couple guys from South Africa, India, Japan, Jordan, or China, will not bring that money back, because that money is spent and gone.

Look at it another way, from the perspective of a corrupt US politician.

Biden sanction Chinese AI company so they will always behind American ones. If the American AI company is 5 years ahead of any Chinese company, then that is 5 full years of charging the plebs monopoly price for their American company AI services.

Now Biden will then go to the AI company, and say that he helped, so give me some money and put me on the board of directors. So they do that.

But they cannot do that, because they do not have a monopoly and they might not have many customers. The competition is open source!

Kind of funny.

 

[Eventine]

A wise man once said, allow nothing get in the way of a great story; and Deep Seek is a great story. But end of the day, we need to sit down and talk about facts.

Deep Seek is not a super hero team of 200 IQ geniuses. They didn't "do the impossible." The reason they did what Big Tech. did with a fraction of the costs is because China does everything the US does at a fraction of the costs. It's the same reason BYD can sell an EV brand new for $11,500, but a "domestically built EV" cost $50,000+ in the US. It's why DJI can sell a drone for $500, but Skydio sells it at $2,000. It's why a medical procedure in China cost $500, but the same medical procedure in the US costs $5000.

It's the currency, stupid. Chinese labor, energy, infrastructure, food, medicine, everything seems absurdly cheap when converted to dollars. And that's what Deep Seek's costs were evaluated in - dollars. Nobody ever talks about the amount of energy they used to train the model and how that compares to the energy spent by other AI companies. No, we always talk about dollars, dollars, dollars - and that's the same story across every industry - China does it cheap. AI is just the latest to be hit by it.

Yes, there's a bit more to it than that. Institutional bloat - which doesn't just affect US Big Tech., but also Chinese Big Tech. companies like Baidu, Tencent, Alibaba, etc. - that also has tremendous costs. It's why Byte Dance is investing billions of dollars into the effort, while Deep Seek with its relatively small team with minimal middle management, could get away with a lot less. Fact is, if you have thirty Directors, Senior Directors, and Vice Presidents making millions of dollars a year each, it's going to cost you billions on compensation alone especially with all the usual corporate alignment, meetings, delays, etc.

But that's not just an US problem. That's a big corporation problem. It's why nobody in Chinese Big Tech. is claiming it's cheap. Because it isn't, when your corporation becomes that large.

Deep Seek's advantage is the advantage enjoyed by every Chinese company in competition vs. the US - cost. Their disadvantage will also be the same - it'll be hard for Deep Seek to keep hold of its talent in the coming days, as recruiters start reaching out to poach them for ten times the salary. But maybe that's okay. As long as China maintains a talent advantage vs. the US, and there's no shortage of young Chinese AI graduates hungry for fame and fortune, companies like Deep Seek can continue to surprise the world about Chinese costs in dollars.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1882839715713556675

Whoops. Looks like China already found the solution 6-7 decades ago.

 

[horse]

This is just speculatiion, but remember how it wasnt long ago Sam Altman was saying he needs 7 trillion to get to ASI, and how Zuck claims to have spent 10 billion just to train Llama 3?

Now DeepSeek shows its possible to make a SOTA model with just 5 million...

Something isnt adding up

What if this whole AI bubble was a deliberate Ponzi scheme and NFT-isque money laundering to extent the petrodollar?

Basically they are all in on it, and like tulips and overpriced artwork, the real trick here is that AI is a way to prop up the US dollar in plain sight...

They probably hired a bunch of Indians, who hired another bunch of Indians, who hired another bunch of Indians.

Since we cannot say that, because it is racist, so no one talks about it.

This is not uncommon in the United States. The gravy train is what it is. That is why in the US military, hammers and toilet seats and shit cost $10000 bucks each.

People are all over a scam when they see it.

Good to know DeepSeek stands for justice and generally accepted accounting principles, something like that.

 

[Temstar]

That is not the problem here.

The problem here for the American AI players in LLM, is that the money is gone.

Hiring a couple guys from South Africa, India, Japan, Jordan, or China, will not bring that money back, because that money is spent and gone.

Look at it another way, from the perspective of a corrupt US politician.

Biden sanction Chinese AI company so they will always behind American ones. If the American AI company is 5 years ahead of any Chinese company, then that is 5 full years of charging the plebs monopoly price for their American company AI services.

Now Biden will then go to the AI company, and say that he helped, so give me some money and put me on the board of directors. So they do that.

But they cannot do that, because they do not have a monopoly and they might not have many customers. The competition is open source!

Kind of funny.

I wonder how much has been invested in AI in SV so far. A Ford-class is like 13 billion. If we just go with the 500 billion Stargate figure that's equal to 30 Ford-class carriers sunk in a week.

 

[ansy1968]

A wise man once said, let nothing get in the way of a great story; and Deep Seek is a great story. But end of the day, we need to sit down and talk about facts.

Deep Seek is not a super hero team of 200 IQ geniuses. They didn't "do the impossible." The reason they did what Big Tech. did with a fraction of the costs is because China does everything the US does at a fraction of the costs. It's the same reason BYD can sell an EV brand new for $11,500, but a "domestically built EV" cost $50,000+ in the US. It's why DJI can sell a drone for $500, but Skydio sells it at $2,000. It's why a medical procedure in China cost $500, but the same medical procedure in the US costs $5000.

It's the currency, stupid. Chinese labor, energy, infrastructure, medicine, food, medicine, everything seems absurdly cheap when converted to dollars. And that's what Deep Seek's costs were evaluated in - dollars. Nobody ever talks about the amount of energy they used to train the model and how that compares to the energy spent by other AI companies. No, we always talk about dollars, dollars, dollars - and that's the same story across every industry - China does it cheap. AI is just the latest to be hit by it.

Yes, there's a bit more to it than that. Institutional bloat - which doesn't just affect US Big Tech., but also Chinese Big Tech. companies like Baidu, Tencent, Alibaba, etc. - that also has tremendous costs. It's why Byte Dance is investing billions of dollars into the effort, while Deep Seek with its relatively small team with minimal middle management, could get away with a lot less. Fact is, if you have thirty Directors, Senior Directors, and Vice Presidents making millions of dollars a year each, it's going to cost you billions on compensation alone especially with all the usual corporate alignment, meetings, delays, etc.

But that's not just an US problem. That's a big corporation problem. It's why nobody in Chinese Big Tech. is claiming it's cheap. Because it isn't, when your corporation becomes that large.

Deep Seek's advantage is the advantage enjoyed by every Chinese company in competition vs. the US - cost. Their disadvantage will also be the same - it'll be hard for Deep Seek to keep hold of its talent in the coming days, as recruiters start reaching out to poach them for ten times the salary. But maybe that's okay. As long as China maintains a talent advantage vs. the US, and there's no shortage of young Chinese AI graduates hungry for fame and fortune, companies like Deep Seek can continue to surprise the world about Chinese costs in dollars.

A by product of Xi crackdown on monopolistic tech company, without it, Deep Seek and other startup had No chance to shine or even survive.

 

[Chevalier]

In an earlier post I mentioned what skinhead is. A skinhead is a white person who doesn’t live up to the standard of white supremacy. They’re a very angry people because they see people who they deem as “inferior” to them having better lives than they do. When you’re a white supremacist, you believe everyone not white is suppose to be below you. When that’s not the case, these people become very angry. The lower social standing whites are usually the ones that experience this. What were seeing happening today is the skinhead threshold is moving upward among Western social standing.

This is why you’re seeing those having higher social standing becoming more hostile and embracing nationalistic rhetoric.

Every Asian person who attended university would have firsthand experience of the incipient barely concealed racist nature of supposedly “liberal“ faculty, whether it be the Harvard Asian admissions scandal or outright racism against Chinese on campus disguised as “free Tibet” activism, usually by privileged white , Indian or blacks who have the most to lose from a rising China.

AI is central to China development, without it how can the CPC led China advance into higher stages of socialism? AI isn't central to India's development, without AI the (often Brahmin) elites can still exploit the surplus cheap labour from the lower class to enjoy a good quality of life. In fact AI developments would actually threaten the ruling class since a large unemployed population in India would be very destabilizing. Can you imagine if millions of call centre workers or the million of workers in small-medium manufacturers in India got replaced by AI and advanced robotics?

indeed, slavery and the mass pool of free labour was also why Rome remained technologically stagnant and never industrialised despite discovering steam power from the Greeks.

 

[Serb]

Some of you need to chill the f**k out. The west have been poaching talent out of China for over 100 years. In the field of AI, Microsoft already moved a lot of talent out of China. What happened? DeepSeek still came out of China. Even if you buy out all of Deepseek, I guarantee you another team will take its place in China immediately.

Yeah, it's not just DeepSeek, it's many other companies in the pipeline too already even as we speak.

The problem is that the software industry (like LLMs) is low-Capex in nature (as shown by DeepSeek).

So, this means that the Chinese lag in traditional nationwide fixed assets doesn't apply here.

This is really the worst industry, where Western nations relying on centuries-long accumulated advantages, could compete with China.

As therefore this is not about accumulated lead, but the present-day brain power of humans.

And China has much more brain power than the West due to total population size but also IQ lead + studiousness.

What China needed was just to provide basic tertiary education to a significant chunk of these people,

And it finally fortunately happened recently with 5-10 STEM graduates that the US has now.

This is DeepSeek's playbook in the words of their CEO, the company then educates them further in-company.

Because AI is such a nascent industry, the previous, same-job experience is irrelevant here.

So it doesn't matter if some Western researcher has 20 years of experience more (because everything changes very fast).

Also, this means as long as China has 10 times more STEM graduates yearly, it will just train new ones if they get poached.

 

[AssassinsMace]

In denial Americans don't believe China that is about collapse can pay a half a trillion dollars for AI and lie it only cost them five million. If it was stolen, it doesn't cost anything to release something they should've already have done.