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Lethe

Captain
India calls itself a superpower. Yet it keeps getting cucked by Australia in cricket. Something even Australians don't care about.

I mean, that just isn't true. Nearly 374,000 people attended at the Melbourne Cricket Ground across the five days of the fourth test alone, with a total of
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across the five test series, and it has been front page news most every day of play. The only real competition in the domestic sporting landscape at the moment is the Big Bash League, which is just another variety of cricket. Cricket is part of the cultural wallpaper for Australia's Christmas-New Year holiday period, the Boxing Day test in particular. Relatively few people are deeply invested in the game, but it's great watercooler conversation material. I enjoyed this recent cartoon on the subject:



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Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
I honestly also have no idea why Iran's economy is so weak. I can only attribute it to that we maybe underestimated the power and the effects of Western sanctions after seeing how greatly they backfired on China and Russia recently and how they dusted them off. However, maybe they really have great harmful potency against these regional powers and 'normal' countries. It is not just Iran, look at Venezuela for example.

These kinds of countries are already not particularly prosperous even before sanctions as part of the Global South, not to mention with such sanctions. The greatest problem of sanctions is their secondary nature that literally no one wants to have much to deal with you to not offend the US, and if you are not internally self-sufficient enough and externally influential, as Russia as of recent, and China, you are kinda done for.

Generally, an autocratic regime like the Iranian (no matter its nature, if it is theocratic or secular) should have theoretically been the most effective solution for their economy, look at what Putin did for Russia for example, or CCP for China. So, I was always surprised why their economy is so shit. So something has to be missing.

It could be true that they spend too much resources and focus on religious matters. But keep in mind that what can keep such a population of a dozen ethnic groups, with Persians barely 51%, united in one place? You guessed it. It is religion. I think that they simply have to invest so much energy precisely because of that, having a trade-off.

Also, basically, some kind of religious propaganda, heavy enforcement, and a strong hand are also necessary once again to keep everything from falling apart. They are not like China which has a strong natural cultural tendency toward centralization and collectivism organically.
The issue is not being multi ethnic. There are secular ways to keep multiple ethnicities unified. China, Vietnam, and the US are all multi ethnic but they managed just fine with secular policies and economic development. The argument of ethnic homogeneity was more powerful when Japan and South Korea were the only examples of successful first world countries that weren’t white but barely registers today.

I’m in the camp of the main reason being Western sanctions and sabotage; and failure to secure the country from it. On the sanctions front, China was a bit fortunate in being so large & populated that the West could not resist its own greed to keep up the embargo. It’s also a kind of right place, right time situation as the US was so full of itself after the “end of history” that it fell right into Deng’s “hide your strength & bide your time” strategy. Iran was neither big enough nor fortunate enough to be able to establish that sort of freedom window from sanctions.

On the intelligence front, Iran is ultimately a deeply compromised society and was targeted by 50+ years of intelligence operations that proved to be very successful. Iranian leaders who were competent and courageous were regularly targeted for assassination and removal, while the percentage of cowards, sycophants, and collaborators in the government increased. If this had happened in China it would similarly be in deep **** - imagine if China’s top leaders & generals were constantly hiding in bunkers and were still regularly “disappearing” in “random” locations plane/car crashes. It wouldn’t be able to govern.

The bigger question is how China was able to avoid such a fate despite being a similarly major target for the CIA. The answer is probably along the lines of superior counter intelligence capabilities combined with an - in retrospect wise - commitment to early totalitarianism.

I remember being younger and buying into the Western propaganda that China is a horrible oppressive country because of how totalitarian CCP control was; but in reality that was the West expressing its frustration at not being able to influence & take control of Chinese society through its usual intelligence channels. If China had “liberalized” its media and social networks, it is almost certain it’d be just as compromised as Iran today.

Even as it is, there were still close calls. The Tibetan rebellion in 1959 and 2008, Tiananmen in 1989, the “umbrella revolution” in 2014, the Uyghur uprising in 2009, the Falun Gong crack down in 1999, and even Jack Ma’s attempted financial coup in 2022. I’m sure Western intelligence had a hand in each one of these incidents, whether as instigator, planner, or just operational & political support. That was the price of “opening up” one’s country to foreign influence & investment. But where China took the blows, maintained internal cohesion, & kept going, Iran buckled and lost its most effective leaders like Solemaini and possibly Raisi. In the end, that sealed its fate.
 
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valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
Many Americans still labor under the false impression that China's manufacturing and economy is just a result of mass uneducated unoriginal brainwashed peasant slaves in sweatshops, and for that matter that all Asian economies are similar sweatshops. It allows the white supremacists to still sneer down at Asians as robotic uncreative and "inferior". They did it first with the Japanese decades ago, and the Chinese are just the latest in the series. Of course then from this false conclusion must of needs come the similarly false conclusion that any high tech must be the result of theft and that it must be inferior to the "real deal" from the West. This can cause misjudgment about capabilities and lead to miscalculation in case of conflict.
The China of US public consciousness is that of Great Leap Forward China, not the China of today. It's one of the worst cases of mass delusion that the world has ever seen.
 

supersnoop

Colonel
Registered Member
I personally know so, so, so many people who got “China-pilled” in the last 5-6 years

It’s not hard, any big city in US/Canada has homeless encampments in any big park. The people there have massive substance abuse problems and somehow no one has a solution. People can’t even take their kids out. The new trend amongst teenagers seems to be mob smash and grabs, basically a looting society.

Meanwhile, anyone who goes to China, so is interested in China even remotely sees high speed trains everywhere, clean looking cities, etc. Even if it is 90% fake, it’s still 10% better than what is going on in North America.
 

Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
The China of US public consciousness is that of Great Leap Forward China, not the China of today. It's one of the worst cases of mass delusion that the world has ever seen.
This is what happens when your media manufactures so much consent around "China bad" that it no longer knows how to portray reality.

Control of the media is key to Western power over its own population; and also, of Western influence over the world at large.

Countries that allow Western media free reign become puppets to their power.

This is not widely known because, guess what makes a topic widely known? The media.

China's strict lock down on Western influence - made possible by its totalitarian media controls - was critical to avoiding this fate.
 

TPenglake

Junior Member
Registered Member
Starting to look interesting in South Korea. Nevermind that Yoon has at this point a 250 man strong private security force that's willing to risk their careers and benefits to continue protecting him in his compound, which is now by all accounts being prepped for a siege including installation of barbed wire and crates of canned food. (Say what you want about Koreans, but while in principle eating during a siege is defined by scarcity, having bonchon sure as hell makes it as gourmet as it gets) Right wing social media in both Korea and the outside world, including our favorite double agent Gordon Chang, are flooding the Korean information space, arguing that martial law is a necessary evil against Chinese and NK influence, and thus rallying more and more people to Yoon's side. I wouldn't be surprised if they're also using the excuse that the Left's supporters are overwhelmingly feminist and thus winning the support of the country's notorious incel population as well.

As with Jan 6th in the US, just because the initial insurrection was put down doesn't mean the show's over, since the underlying divisions in society remain and will continue contributing to instability in not just Korea, but in all liberal democratic societies.

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