There is a saying the first generation established an empire, the second generation maintain it and the third generation destroyed it. Can we define Singapore a political dynasty? from the outside looking in then my answer is yes.
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- Thread starter bd popeye
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Thanks. I have been looking for this Charlie Munger speech after I've heard it quoted in some podcast. Unfortunately for India. Charlie Munger's dire assessment for India is still too simplified. India's problems are much deeper, and are starting to manifest even more these days. Breakdown of law and order, widespread unrepentant depravity, Hindutva fanaticism, rejection of science in favour of religion and superstition, Supapowar delusions, megalomaniacal leaders, rich worshipping, power worshipping, white worshipping, widespread stupidity, more talk than doing, lack of ability to get major works done, and so many other ills of the third world.
This is the inconvenient truth about India. While there are ancient civilizations scattered all around South Asia, there never existed the nation of India prior to British colonialization. Because of this, India is suffering from an identity crisis, because it compares itself with the imperial powers of the West, and the great East Asian nations of the East. India's understanding of its current territories only goes back to the British Raj, but its understanding of its own past is based on a confused mess of old civilizations that had inhabited its lands. The RSS, BJP, and Hindutvas took this to another level and created fictional myths of a glorious Hindu Empire in the past. Justifying India as the modern version of that Hindu Empire, and creating the Akhand Bharat map to lay claim over other territories.
From a practical point of view, India is far from a united nation. Each regions have their own distinct cultures, religion, and languages. Many are in an uneasy union with the leadership in Northern India. While others actually want to breakaway, but haven't been able to. There is no national language in India, despite Hindi being spoken and promoted by the ruling elites. Even when Hindi is being taught in schools, many ethnic groups have refused to pick up the language. Without a common language, its a miracle that India still held together all these times. So I'm sure that it was English who was the defacto official language of India. This in essence, makes India a post-colonial state, and not a true civilizational state. Therefore, this busts the myth that India itself is a civilizational state akin to China. With fractious unity like this, India could never move forward with the speed of China, South Korea, or Japan.
Some might argue that Singapore too was a post-colonial construct. Indeed it was, and Lee Kuan Yew was wise enough to accept that. He ran Singapore as the post-colonial island nation that it is, full-stop. He had never dwelled on creating any "glorious past". Instead he wanted to move forward and create great a glorious future for Singapore. LKY was practical, he united the various races in Singapore using English as the national language, and had no race-based policymaking. He was a no-nonsense type of guy. No ethnic group or religion is above the law. Muslim extremism was outlawed, unethical Chinese superstitions were banned, and scandalous Christian churches were shutdown. LKY doesn't accept stupidity and uncivilized behavior. People who pissed in elevators were punished by the law. Politicians who challenged him just for the sake of unseating him are sued and barred from running. Were there flaws? Of course there was. But the overall result is LKY led Singapore to become the first-world island nation that we all know today.
Malaysia, the country that ejected Singapore out was constantly dwelling in the past. Creating myths and legends about its glorious past of Malay Muslim supremacy. Trying to justify why the Malay Muslims were so glorious before the British and the immigrants came. The result is obvious, Malaysia stayed a third world nation, with a large Malay Muslim population who feel entitled. Even when Malaysia is blessed with a good leader like PM Anwar Ibrahim, the nation is just too broken for him to fix in only 1 term. Its a 20 year job to fix, but the deluded and entitled Malay Muslims will vote him out in the next election for more of the same old racist leaders who had kept the nation behind. The hard truth is that at least 70% of the Malaysian economy is held up by Oil and the Malaysian Chinese. Without the Malaysian Chinese, the nation would drop down to the development levels of rural Indonesia. There are many parallels between Malaysia and India. That is why I'm fairly confident that India is never gonna catch up to the development levels of any of the East Asian great economies, let alone China. If I'm a betting man, I would put my bet on Vietnam to become next economic miracle in Asia, not India.
China has already bet on Vietnam long ago. Not just them just even HK and Singapore. The west is already too late in a way.
Thats why there's been some anti-Vietnam news in western media lately. And its only going to mount up. Especially those guys who bet on India instead of Vietnam and feel angry they made the wrong choice.
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azn_cyniq
Guest
I agree. I would be incredibly surprised if the value of India's merchandise exports surpasses that of Vietnam within the next 20 years. A small, hard-working nation of 100 million can easily outmuscle a large, lazy nation of 1.4 billion.
This is the first time I heard of Turkey being known for science. I know they produced the Bayraktar but never heard of them being a science powerhouse.
Iran on the other hand traces its civilization back to ancient Persia. They were the Rome/China in terms of culture for the middle east. They have brains and they also have incredible strength as shown in weightlifting/wrestling. Its no wonder Israel only fears them out of the whole middle East. They really are different.
Yes. While LKY had made sure that there was no racism in his policies. He still steered the politics in Singapore in a way that favours the Chinese majority. LKY doesn't shy away from the inconvenient truths. He had expressed his views on numerous interviews to great controversy. Many Singaporeans, at least in the past understood his views. The Westerners are appalled, and the Sinophobes hate him.
My argument to those who hate this inconvenient truth is what outcome do you want? If you want to reach the prosperity you see in Singapore and East Asia, then learn what the East Asians do to become successful. Some of their customs may not be comfortable for you, but are you willing to pick it up to become as successful as them? If you want Imperial prosperity like the West, then look at how they do it, through their path of violence and racism. But know your relative power, and be prepared to pay the price in blood, or suffer total defeat if you fail. If you want your race and religion to be top priority but have a mediocre economy, then look to Malaysia and India for inspiration. If you are content and just want a simple, easy-going economy, never mind development, then look to Bhutan for inspiration. You can't have everything. You can't have a world-beating economy while your nation is mired in ethnic strife and racism unless you're willing to go imperial and pay the price in blood. You can't have an easy and idyllic life of religious bliss, and then have a great economy too. Great economies are hard to build, and they need a competitive workforce. These things don't come from the heavens. People in third world democracies are being sold dreams of ethnic and religious greatness, as if their gods will grant them all the wealth and power that they crave. That is why they tend to become entitled, have unrealistic expectations, and then start to blame someone when they don't get what they want.
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azn_cyniq
Guest
I think what he was trying to say is that Turks and Iranians are highly intelligent and academically-inclined, which, based on my experience, is true. There are many Iranians in the technical departments of virtually every well-regarded university in the West. Also, if I remember correctly, Middle East Technical University in Turkey is one of the most prestigious universities in the Middle East.
May as well say the US wants to go full iron curtain but needs its vassals and 'allies' to agree to it so it wouldnt matter what China does, the US as an identitarian entity is committed to the idea of white supremacy on a level that no genuinely soverign european state is. What use is the United States when China has the world's best tech and science and moonbases and starships? What use is the national ideology of anglo america as a cultural force? Why would a non anglo learn english when learning Chinese will give access to Chinese science and tech and opportunities which President Xi's financial reforms are going to provide?
Technically, Vietnam is a Chinese province that just happened to break away successfully. In a sense, vietnam‘s success is due to its proximity to the sinosphere.
