Chinese Aviation Industry

asif iqbal said:

China should really have a lot of experience in this field, so far they have built over 126 Airbus A320 aircraft from thier Airbus assembly line in Tianjin

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Assembling aircraft from knock-down kits and designing from scratch are totally different things.

asif iqbal said:

The building of the Airbus really put China on the right track as far as commercial aircraft goes, somehow however things haven't gone quite according to plan

Never the less they must push on, invest more and try harder to get the issues resolved, even if it means delaying the project, they have to master this field of technology no matter what the cost is there is a big market for ARJ-21 and C919 and COMAC is a young company

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COMAC also has a culture where the lower down engineers/managers cannot change decisions and this is resulting in late discoveries of issues. Issues that are now 'baked into' the concept of the ARJ-21, such as the landing gear problems. COMAC is suffering from stove-piped organization in which teams are reluctant to work together and tend to push decisions up the command chain.

There is a massive learning curve in designing a modern airliner certifiable to international standards. The West and the Russians have been managing to do this for years, and even then, they mess things up every now and then (witness the Boeing 787 problems).

Pointblank said:

Assembling aircraft from knock-down kits and designing from scratch are totally different things.

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I was kind of expecting a comment along the lines of your first sentence, that is not a excuse

Anyone who knows anything about aircraft production will tell you how advantageous it is to have a assembly line, The capabilitys it brings to the countrys talent pool is enormous, the technology transfer is huge and it's the only Airbus assembly line outside Europe

Procedures, manufacturing, machinery, regulations, specifications, etc etc are all established during the assembly process which directly contributes to Chinas own indigenous aviation industry

asif iqbal said:

I was kind of expecting a comment along the lines of your first sentence, that is not a excuse

Anyone who knows anything about aircraft production will tell you how advantageous it is to have a assembly line, The capabilitys it brings to the countrys talent pool is enormous, the technology transfer is huge and it's the only Airbus assembly line outside Europe

Procedures, manufacturing, machinery, regulations, specifications, etc etc are all established during the assembly process which directly contributes to Chinas own indigenous aviation industry

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Experience in aircraft design counts. Anyone can setup a factory to build something; its the design aspect that causes problems. Experienced designers and a good work culture will help you design world class hardware. One doesn't identify design interface issues over 4 years into flight test unless someone is afraid to report a problem!

The ongoing failure of the ARJ-21's certification and design issues is a symptom of the lack of experience and poor management of the program. Aerospace has a time component to it; as a project is launched, technologies must be 'frozen' along the way. Usually two years into a project, the bulk of the technologies are have already been selected and frozen. So while a little delay is no big deal, taking too long means losing 'first mover advantage' for each year of delay until the design becomes obsolete well before it reaches full production. An 11 year delay on what was supposed to be a low risk project (ARJ-21) is a symptom of lack of design experience and poor management.

Assembling from knock-down kits is not a very involved process; someone's already done the work for you designing the hardware, how it all interfaces, and the processes involved in assembly. Having to do all of this from scratch takes a lot of technical expertise, experience, and strong management.

escobar said:

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I will treat this kind of news with skceptisim first until confirmation from COMAC. Since the source never even quote any of the names.

Lion said:

I will treat this kind of news with skceptisim first until confirmation from COMAC. Since the source never even quote any of the names.

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The story is being repeated by FlightGlobal, which is a leading aviation magazine:

Pointblank said:

The story is being repeated by FlightGlobal, which is a leading aviation magazine:

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It still proves nothing. No name quote. Who is the expert in chinese aviation who say that? nobody knows... It is as good as zero.
Probably Gordon chang who says that. LOL.

Lion said:

It still proves nothing. No name quote. Who is the expert in chinese aviation who say that? nobody knows... It is as good as zero.
Probably Gordon chang who says that. LOL.

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Considering that the heavily revised timeframe for them to certify the ARJ-21 is early half of 2013 with the CAAC, and it is already late May, certification does not appear to be likely as per the heavily revised schedule. It appears more likely that the schedule is going to slip, again.

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At the 16th China International High-tech Expo which took place during May 21-26, 2013 in Beijing, AVIC Laser, a subsidiary of AVIC Heavy Machinery, showed off the world's largest titanium aircraft critical component produced using 3D Laser Direct Manufacturing technology. AVIC Laser displayed, for the first time, a large 3D printed titanium part for J-20 or J-31 stealth fighter. According to AVIC Laser, their 3D Laser Direct Manufacturing technology has been used in producing 7 kinds of aircraft, including Y-20 Strategic Airlifter, J-15 carrier-borne fighter, C919 airliner and next generation stealth fighters. The J-15's chief designer confirmed in March that printable components are being used "in major load-bearing parts, including the [J-15's] front landing gear."







AVIC Laser was established in 2000. Funded by Chinese government, especially the military, the team has solved several technical difficulties during the first seven years' research and development of the technology, such as "inert gas protection system", "defect control", "metal lattice growth control" etc. On Jan.18, 2013 AVIC Laser won the national technology invention award in Beijing.



The 3D Laser Direct Manufacturing technology could lower the cost of titanium parts to only 5 percent of the original. It costs about 25 million yuan ($4m) to process one ton titanium alloy complex structural parts using traditional method, but with 3D Laser Direct Manufacturing it costs only 1.3 million ($212k).

Currently AVIC Laser's 3D Laser Direct Manufacturing technology can be used to make large structural parts using titanium alloy, high-strength steel, high temperature & high strength steel. Compared with conventional processes, this technology could save up to 90% of materials and costs. And if the forged titanium parts on an American F-22 were made using the Chinese 3D printing technology, around 40 percent of the weight can be reduced.

It's not only military planes that will benefit from this, the Northwestern Polytechnical University of China has also used the same technology to print out a five meter-long titanium wing beam for the C919 passenger plane which is expected to be put into commercial operation in 2016.

the advance in Chinese aviation industries are highly impressive,according to EU,they estimate Chinese might caught up around 2023.

For those who might be interested, I made a "Chinese Aviation report 2012" for the next Combat Aircraft Monthly (due out next week I think !)

Deino

(mine is only the small one !)