Chinese Aviation Industry

Schumacher

Senior Member
And they did it because SAC wasn't meeting deadlines and spec, and could not figure out how to meet their deadlines and the spec. You don't pull work from subcontractors unless they have failed. I've work in procurement, and I've pulled jobs from suppliers and reassigned if they had no hope of meeting requirements before. I've rather that a supplier under-promise and over deliver rather than over promise and under deliver.

Remains to be seen if SACC is reassigned the work in the future, or if Bombardier ever decides to send major component work back. They sent the work on the Bombardier Global 7000 and 8000 sections to Aerolia, Shorts Belfast, and Mitsubishi; SACC doesn't even have any workshare in the Global series aircraft. What they intend to do will depend on the work done by SACC.

And there are no evidence of delays if any was caused by SAC other than the usual media trying to find scapegoats for the incompetence of western companies. Successful businesses maintain close professional ties with their suppliers/subcontractors so they can meet the goals, those only pointing finger at their suppliers usually indicates more serious problems within the company itself.
And there are countless reasons why they chose other suppliers for their Global series. Nothing strange about having many suppliers.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Almost no one will meet deadline and specs on a brand new prototype, that's why air framers always keep the prototype work in house. I was initially puzzled when Bombardier assigned fuselage work to SAC straight away because they are taking a huge, huge risk. In other words there is nothing negative about this news, Bombardier just came to its senses and reverted back to standard industrial practices.

BTW, just curious, are you ThePointBlank from airliners.net?

And there are no evidence of delays if any was caused by SAC other than the usual media trying to find scapegoats for the incompetence of western companies. Successful businesses maintain close professional ties with their suppliers/subcontractors so they can meet the goals, those only pointing finger at their suppliers usually indicates more serious problems within the company itself.
And there are countless reasons why they chose other suppliers for their Global series. Nothing strange about having many suppliers.

In a contract where there are specifications involved, there is usually some room for variance. There was probably a best case scenario that SAC could hit, and then the bare minimum. If it comes to a point where I am pulling work from you, work that was given to you in a contract, then you most likely did not meet the bare minimum and there was no resolution in sight. There is evidence that SAC could not hit a weight target with Bombardier, and thus was taken off the design team for a major structure, despite the lead contractor providing assistance. There comes a point where you, as the lead contractor will have to pull work from a subcontractor and ask someone else to do the work. Bombardier probably reached that stage with SAC and pulled major sections back.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I think it's a Chinese Osprey.

27132890571a0e3f6c593d0.jpg
 

escobar

Brigadier
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European aircraft manufacturer Airbus delivered 125 new aircraft to Chinese operators in 2012, accounting for over 20 percent of its global deliveries during the period, according to figures from Airbus China.

Last year's deliveries included 106 A320 Family aircraft, 17 A330s and two A380s, the company said. This brought the number of in-service Airbus aircraft on the Chinese mainland to 876 as of the end of last year.

China's demand for passenger jets has seen steady growth in recent years, and the country has risen to become the world's second largest civil aviation market, after the United States.


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Airbus A320 Family Final Assembly Line China (FALC) has achieved its 2012 target of assembling 37 aircraft. With two more delivered in the first half of January, the total number of Airbus single aisle aircraft assembled by FALC is leading to 112.

The first A320 aircraft assembled by FALC was delivered to Sichuan Airlines in June 2009. The deliveries from Tianjin were 11 in 2009, 27 in 2010 and 36 in 2011...
 

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The home-made C919 aircraft's nose prototype which AVIC Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co., Ltd. participated in designing and manufacturing has already been delivered and the nose for the C919 test aircraft is under manufacture and is expected to be delivered this year as planned, Hong Jiansheng, vice chief engineer of AVIC Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co., Ltd., disclosed on Mar. 9.

Chengdu has strong strength in aviation industry, which wins AVIC Chengdu Aircraft Industrial the chance to participate in both manufacturing and designing the nose of C919. The manufacture of nose prototype started in the year of 2009 and was delivered in the same year.

Hong Jiansheng revealed that the nose for the C919 test plane is now well under manufacture and is expected to be delivered this year as planned.
 

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Boeing delivered Friday its 1,000th airplane to China, making the country its first market outside the United States to pass the one-thousand threshold.

"This is a very, very big deal for us," Ihssane Mounir, senior vice president of sales and marketing of Boeing Company Northeast Asia told Xinhua at the delivery ceremony.

The 1,000th airplane, a Next-Generation 737-800 with the Boeing Sky Interior painted in special peacock livery, will join China Eastern Yunnan Airlines.

"We will fly to Yunnan (a province in southwestern China) tomorrow after the delivery," Shi Fukang, general manager of the China Eastern Airlines Yunnan Company said.

The Next-Generation 737 uses an advanced system called Head-up Display, which comprises a transparent glass display positioned between the pilot's eye and flight deck window to show critical information such as airspeed, altitude and attitude, and flight path.

China has become one of the world's most dynamic markets for commercial planes. Boeing forecasts that China will need 5,260 new airplanes, valued at about 670 billion U.S. dollars, in the next 20 years.

"This year we will be delivering over 170 airplanes to China. This year we increase our delivery to China by 60 percent compared to last year. So if you look at 170 (airplanes) a year and in five or six years, even seven years we will reach the next milestone,"
Mounir said.

Cooperation between Boeing and China's aviation industry traces back to 1916. The first engineer that Bill Boeing hired was China-born Wong Tsoo, who helped design the company's first commercial success -- the Model C bi-wing airplane.

In 1972, the historic visit by U.S. President Richard Nixon to China led to the introduction of Boeing aircraft to the market.

More than 7,000 Boeing airplanes operating throughout the world use major parts and assemblies from China. Chinese suppliers contribute parts and components to every current Boeing commercial airplane model, including 737, 747, 767, 777 and 787.

"In fact the airplane behind me has the horizontal stabilizer that was built in China ... We have more than 7,000 airplanes flying with parts and systems built in China,"
Mounir said.

Boeing airplanes comprise more than half of the commercial jetliners operated in China, providing service to more than 20 Chinese airlines.

As one of the three major airlines in China, the China Eastern Airlines currently operates the largest 737 fleet among Chinese airlines.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
无独有偶,「中国预警机之父」王小谟曾经说过一个实例,在中国刚开始生产预警机雷达组件时,有一些工厂认为「要求太苛刻,多余」,不按要求的工艺做,结果产品次品率废品率很高,然后说生产工艺不行,材料不行,设备不行,甚至是设计要求太苛刻。王小谟等专家就天天在生产车间反覆督促他们必须按操作规程和工艺要求生产。工厂最终按照要求生产,结果是同样的生产设备,同一批工人,成品率确实大幅度提高。

When AWAC radar components production first started, some factories think the production process is too strict, excessive, and didn't follow the process. The final products have excessive defect rates. The factories then blame the defects on bad equipments, bad materials, even the design process too strict. When the father of Chinese AWAC Wang Xiaomo work with them in the production line, making sure they follow the process, the factories relented. Afterward, the defection rate drop dramatically with the same equipment and same workers.


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【本报讯】中国首款大型军用运输机运20于1月28日成功首飞,引发关注。内地军事专家刘临川表示,运20的国产化率肯定超过30%,虽然发动机还不是国产的,但大部分材料和机体加工还是中国完成的。在航电系统、环控系统、机电系统、燃油系统、除冰系统、机舱设备方面大多立足于国产,只在小部分目前无法国产的分系统采用进口部件。

据环球网综合报道,刘临川说,运20在选择分系统时首先注重来源有保证,尽量不受国外控制,也尽量不会采用西方进口的分系统,会更加立足于支持国产。哪怕国产货性能稍微低一点、可靠性一时不太高,也会尽量采用国产的,具体来说,国产化率肯定高于30%。

  发动机「山寨」做不来

运20使用的发动机是俄罗斯的D30-KP-U,「心脏病」问题一直困扰中国航空工业,大运也不例外。刘临川说:「现代航空发动机是不可能走山寨道路的。」

刘临川介绍说,现代航空发动机之所以被世界公认为「现代工业之花」,是因为它具有加工制造上的极度复杂。如果试图像对待普通装备一样简单拆解测绘仿制,是行不通的。比如拆开一台发动机,可以看到这个部件的形状,但为什么做成这个形状,合金配比,冶炼方法,加工工艺,成型次数,这些都是用「山寨」无法搞清的。如果不明白箇中道理,最后就会出现各种各样的问题。例如即使同样的形状同样的材料,仿制的产品比原装的强度、质量、可靠性相差甚远,甚至有可能出现大量废品和故障。

  发动机落后原因在于管理

发动机一直是中国航空的「心病」,虽然运20具备先进的气动布局,但由于发动机的问题导致其性能仅相当美国C17大型运输机的六成。刘临川认为,中国航空发动机长期落后的主要原因是管理而不是坊间常说的工艺。

他表示,对于「太行」发动机曾经频繁出现的一些问题,一位将军曾严厉地批评相关厂所:「你们的主要问题是管理问题」。刘临川认为,这个评价是非常有道理的。

无独有偶,「中国预警机之父」王小谟曾经说过一个实例,在中国刚开始生产预警机雷达组件时,有一些工厂认为「要求太苛刻,多余」,不按要求的工艺做,结果产品次品率废品率很高,然后说生产工艺不行,材料不行,设备不行,甚至是设计要求太苛刻。王小谟等专家就天天在生产车间反覆督促他们必须按操作规程和工艺要求生产。工厂最终按照要求生产,结果是同样的生产设备,同一批工人,成品率确实大幅度提高。

刘临川说,现代航空发动机行业也是这个道理,必须严格按照工艺要求和生产规章制度生产,必须落实责权利清晰,必须落实切实有效的现代企业管理制度。必须树立「军工企业同样是企业,必须落实切实有效的现代企业管理制度」这个概念。

China's first large military transport aircraft transported 20 successful first flight on January 28, triggering concern. The mainland military experts said Liu Linchuan shipped 20 of the localization rate is certainly more than 30%, the engine is not domestically, but most of the material and the body processing or China completed. Mostly based on domestic avionics systems, environmental control systems, mechanical and electrical systems, fuel systems, de-icing systems, cabin equipment, and only in small part can not be made subsystems using imported components.

According to the World Wide Web Roundup, Liu Linchuan shipped 20 in select subsystems first focus on the sources of guaranteed, not subject to foreign control as far as possible, try not using imported western subsystems will be more based on the support of domestic. Even if made in China performance is slightly lower that the reliability is not too high in the moment, will try to adopt domestically, specifically, the localization rate is definitely higher than 30%.

Engine "cottage" do not come

Russia shipped 20 use the engine D30-KP-U, "heart disease" problems been plagued  the Chinese aviation industry, the Grand Canal is no exception. "Linchuan said:" modern aero-engine is not possible to take the cottage road. "

Liu the Linchuan said, the reason why the modern aero-engine world as the "flower of modern industry, because it has extremely complex manufacturing. If you try to treat ordinary equipment as simple as dismantling mapping imitation, is not going to work. For example, when you take apart an engine, you can see the shape of the part, but why made this shape, alloy ratio smelting method, processing technology, molding the number of times, these are with the "cottage" can not figure out. If you do not understand truth, and finally there will be a variety of problems. For example, even if the same material of the same shape, the generic product than the original strength, quality, reliability, a far cry from, there may even be a lot of waste and failure.

Engine backward because management

The engine has been China Aviation "heart disease", although shipped 20 advanced aerodynamic layout quite by only 60% of the C17 large transport aircraft in the United States, but due to engine problems caused the performance. , The the Chinese aviation engine long-term the main reason behind is often said that the process of management rather than printing Liu linchuan think.

He said, for "Taihang" engine used to frequent some of the problems, a general was harshly criticized the related plant are: "Your main problem is to manage the problem. The Liu linchuan, this evaluation is very much justified.

Coincidentally, the "the Chinese AWACS father of" Wang-mo has said an instance of AWACS radar components, beginning production in China, there are some factories that "too demanding, excess, do not follow the requirements process, results of product defect rate The rejection rate is very high, and then said that the production process does not work, the material does not work, the device does not work, and even the design requirements are too harsh. Wang-mo and other experts on every day in the production workshop repeatedly urge the requirements they must follow the rules and processes. Facility will eventually be produced in accordance with the requirements, the result is the same production equipment, the same group of workers, the yield is indeed greatly improved.

The Liu linchuan modern aero-engine industry is the reason, must be strictly in accordance with the process requirements and production rules production, must implement the Right and Interest clear the importance of implementing effective modern enterprise management system. Must establish a "military enterprises the same enterprise, must implement effective modern enterprise management system" concept
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Don’t quite get what that article is on about but Chinese aviation sector is booming, and a booming national market means possibility of booming export market

For example, in the last 10 years or so China has exported

around 300 fighter aircraft, and im counting 150 JF17 in that, that’s A-5, F-7 and JF-17
over 275 trainers mainly K-8
and nearly 150 helicopters of all sorts mainly Z9 and Z11

in addition to around a combined total of Y-12 and MA-60 including future orders standing at 300 aircraft, I count more than a 1,000 aircraft there either delivered or in process of being delivered to customers in a 10 year period maybe 15 years say

this is in addition to sales of ARJ-21 and C919 which account to almost 700 aircraft to all customers in the coming years with new contracts signed frequently, and we are now at 1,700 aircraft, come to think of it, thats a whole lot of aircraft

for the future the pipeline is full with new aircraft like MA-600 (already orders from Laos I think and Yemen) and MA-700 aircraft carrying forward into this decade

with larger aircraft like C929 and C939 in the works the Chinese aircraft manufacturing is only getting stronger and stronger for both domestic and international markets
 
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