ZTQ-15 and PRC Light Tanks

The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
I actually want to ask why it would be a weak point? My thinking on this, is that if the situation is an engagement then if there are additional shells in the tank turret then they can loaded directly into the gun, otherwise it should be in a relatively safe place to do the reloading/resupplying.

I am not questioning your point, it’s just that I am a little confused why it would be a weak point.

Here's why. Yes, it's VT-5 and not Type 15, but I can only assume they're similar inside because I haven't seen official picture of Type 15 interior.

Screenshot (186).png

Aside from the obvious "thinner armor on the loading hatch" thing, based on the screenshot I don't think they can reload the bustle from under armor. The space inside is also cramped enough that I doubt they can easily put the shell into the breech under adrenaline pressure, right when you need it the most.

I think I just dislike the thought that the crew can't use a lull in the fighting where they have to stay in position to load from under armor.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Here's why. Yes, it's VT-5 and not Type 15, but I can only assume they're similar inside because I haven't seen official picture of Type 15 interior.

View attachment 61137

Aside from the obvious "thinner armor on the loading hatch" thing, based on the screenshot I don't think they can reload the bustle from under armor. The space inside is also cramped enough that I doubt they can easily put the shell into the breech under adrenaline pressure, right when you need it the most.

I think I just dislike the thought that the crew can't use a lull in the fighting where they have to stay in position to load from under armor.
I can see your point, but from the look of it, it seems the gunner side doesn’t have the space but the commander side might have the space to do loading if absolutely necessary, tho I am not sure how effectively that would be in an actual fight.

As for loading the bustle from the inside there seems to be just about enough space from the commander side if the system and mechanism allows for it, but a very awkward action with the space available.
 

The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
I can see your point, but from the look of it, it seems the gunner side doesn’t have the space but the commander side might have the space to do loading if absolutely necessary, tho I am not sure how effectively that would be in an actual fight.

As for loading the bustle from the inside there seems to be just about enough space from the commander side if the system and mechanism allows for it, but a very awkward action with the space available.

Maybe it's as you said. The commander might have to play makeshift loader if the bustle is empty/ out of commission (after taking a hit/had some technical malfunction, for example).

On your second point, I don't think the system allows for under armor reloading. I'll post the link of the video from where the screenshot comes from
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. On timestamp 13:00 - 13:03 you can see the technician pressing a button for the loading mechanism after the test crew load the ammo. Unless the interior behind the Tank commander has similar opening and mechanism I don't think they can reload from under armor, and considering the amount of equipment shown behind the gunner seat in the screenshot that possibility is minuscule IMO.

Edit: on timestamp 16:43 the host has shown the rear of the commander seat. Can't see the opening and mechanism necessary, hence most likely cannot reload from under armor.
 

The Observer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Maybe it's as you said. The commander might have to play makeshift loader if the bustle is empty/ out of commission (after taking a hit/had some technical malfunction, for example).

On your second point, I don't think the system allows for under armor reloading. I'll post the link of the video from where the screenshot comes from
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. On timestamp 13:00 - 13:03 you can see the technician pressing a button for the loading mechanism after the test crew load the ammo. Unless the interior behind the Tank commander has similar opening and mechanism I don't think they can reload from under armor, and considering the amount of equipment shown behind the gunner seat in the screenshot that possibility is minuscule IMO.

Edit: on timestamp 16:43 the host has shown the rear of the commander seat. Can't see the opening and mechanism necessary, hence most likely cannot reload from under armor.

New post because exceeded the edit time limit.
2nd Edit: On timestamp 21:03 the camera shows the interior perfectly. Behind the Commander seat, I think there's a hatch of some sort, seen with the handle(?) beside the helmet. Maybe that's what you've been mentioning, and hopefully, it is.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
Maybe it's as you said. The commander might have to play makeshift loader if the bustle is empty/ out of commission (after taking a hit/had some technical malfunction, for example).

On your second point, I don't think the system allows for under armor reloading. I'll post the link of the video from where the screenshot comes from
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. On timestamp 13:00 - 13:03 you can see the technician pressing a button for the loading mechanism after the test crew load the ammo. Unless the interior behind the Tank commander has similar opening and mechanism I don't think they can reload from under armor, and considering the amount of equipment shown behind the gunner seat in the screenshot that possibility is minuscule IMO.

Edit: on timestamp 16:43 the host has shown the rear of the commander seat. Can't see the opening and mechanism necessary, hence most likely cannot reload from under armor.
Without more details being reviled it does seems so, however, I would argue that the bit at 13:00-13:03 where the technician press something looks more like confirming to the tank‘s systems that a shell has been loaded and moving the bustle along to an empty to load the next shell, which can easily be incorporated into other display or controls inside the turret itself.

Plus if you forward the vid a little at 16:53, the display/control seems to be the same as the one at the back of the turret. So it’s hard to say but I think there is a possibility for under armour loading.

Edit: just saw your new comment and had a look, like you say there seems to be some form of controls just behind the commander so maybe they have something for what we are talking about.
 

RichardGao

Junior Member
Registered Member
Checked various media channels and videos, turns out all 4 images have either already been released or is part of a (blurrer) video. So I'm just posting all four of them here.
Pictures have been denoised and magnified, both for u guys to have larger images and to erase the exif information, in case there's a problem with that being posted on the internet.
No link to source at the moment, I'll provide as soon as it's posted tomorrow.
View attachment 61132View attachment 61133View attachment 61134View attachment 61135
Link:
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What's the difference?
Strategic requirements.:)
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Strategic requirements.:)
It's very vague.
I mean, it's seriously challenging to understand difference in thinking behind two of them. Why RHA vs composite, for example?

Most readily available google sources fail even to notice that VT-5 and ZTQ-15 are two different vehicles. For example, all sites give them the exact same dimensions and range of combat weights, despite readily apparent difference in designs and in their protection solutions.

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, which at least notes what those are different tanks, for example, mentions that it can be air dropped(?!). It is either a wrong info, or it points to a revolution in airdrop technology in China.
Or, alternatively, to a significantly lower combat weight of this tank, at least w/o add-on armor.

Next, is there a difference in employment? VT-5 is called light mbt. Ok, that makes sense: lighter breed of tank for restrictive conditions. In Bangladesh it's going to be used in this exact way.
But ZTQ-15...on videos it looks like it's also employed like an mbt.
Then why no composite?

And so on.
It's simple to understand that PLA requirements are different, +apparently army as a customer really doesn't like sharing its tanks.

I am trying to understand for myself, what are those requirements.

If there are good reads - well, it would be great. o_O
 

RichardGao

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's very vague.
Yes, I know. And I'm trying to make it vague and not talk into the details, but since you asked I'm just going to explain a little. BTW official media also never talked about the differences, so all this is basically personal speculation.

Next, is there a difference in employment? VT-5 is called light mbt. Ok, that makes sense: lighter breed of tank for restrictive conditions. In Bangladesh it's going to be used in this exact way.
But ZTQ-15...on videos it looks like it's also employed like an mbt.
Then why no composite?
Yes, "lighter breed of MBT" is exactly what VT-5 is. It's designed for terrain like muddy crop fields, land with rich water systems and so on, where heavier MBTs have problems passing easily. That's why countries like Bangladesh would buy it.


Type 15 on the other hand, is especially designed for high-risk areas at higher altitudes, for e.g. the India-China boundaries, and Tibetan regions that need stronger anti-terrorism weapons. The lighter weight brings both better tactical mobility and rapid-reaction capabilities, as well as faster deployment and better traversing capabilities.
The Type 15's engine is also specified for lower atmospheric pressures, at an extent which, in 15's trial tests, enabled it to have extremely good mobility numbers (speed reduction of merely x kph, and engine power reduction of roughly 5%.) The ability to fight in muddy terrain is in fact an additional advantage a result of the lighter weight.
A reasonable expectation of a fight with PLA on the plateaus would be: you having only infantry and light gear, while facing enemy with numerous tanks.
What official media commented about the capabilities of 15 was: an all-terrain-mobile vehicle capable of high mobility, diverse array of striking methods, high survivability, and high informational abilities. And is mainly used for rapid-deployment, mobilized assault, and capturing strategically important locations.
It, therefore unlike the VT-5, faces no powerful tanks, instead being more exposed to firepower like artillery strikes, autocannon fire, and infantry-carried ATGMs. Therefore Type 15 doesn't need to be as protected against anti-tank firepower like APFSDS. Instead of using composite armour, it is freer to use heavy ERA (such as the FY-5) with high post-strike survivability. (Good ERA actually has equal/better survivability than composite) The leftover weight can be used to increase ammo load, increase mobility, install heavier electronics and auxiliary devices, and most importantly, strengthen top-protection, against those pesty artillery and top-attack ATGMs, especially against EFP projectiles. That's why VT-5 has composite, but 15 doesn't.

mentions that it can be air dropped(?!). It is either a wrong info, or it points to a revolution in airdrop technology in China.
Well, that's purely science fiction. I can't believe people can actually make up stories like this lol. o_O
 

RichardGao

Junior Member
Registered Member
Rewrote parts of it, the original is still a bit hard to read. Edit time expired, very sorry for posting such a large chunk of writing again.



It's very vague.
Yes, I know. And I'm trying to make it vague and not talk into the details, but since you asked I'm just going to explain a little. BTW official media also never talked about the differences, so all this is basically personal speculation.

Next, is there a difference in employment? VT-5 is called light mbt. Ok, that makes sense: lighter breed of tank for restrictive conditions. In Bangladesh it's going to be used in this exact way.
But ZTQ-15...on videos it looks like it's also employed like an mbt.
Then why no composite?
Yes, "lighter breed of MBT" is exactly what VT-5 is. It's designed for terrain like muddy crop fields, land with rich water systems and so on, where heavier MBTs have problems passing easily. That's why countries like Bangladesh would buy it.



Type 15 on the other hand, is especially designed for high-risk areas at higher altitudes, for e.g. the India-China boundaries, and Tibetan regions that need stronger anti-terrorism weapons. The lighter weight brings both better tactical mobility and rapid-reaction capabilities, as well as faster deployment and better traversing capabilities.

The Type 15's engine is also specified for lower atmospheric pressures, at an extent which, in 15's trial tests, enabled it to have extremely good mobility numbers (speed reduction of merely x kph, and engine power reduction of roughly 5%.) The ability to fight in muddy terrain is in fact an additional advantage a result of the lighter weight.

What official media commented about the capabilities of 15 was: an all-terrain-mobile vehicle capable of high mobility, diverse array of striking methods, high survivability, and high informational abilities. And is mainly used for rapid-deployment, mobilized assault, and capturing strategically important locations.

Thus, a reasonable scenario of combat with PLA on the plateaus would be: you having only infantry and light gear, while PLA on the other hand, has access to an army of numerous tanks, that can destroy artillery formations and occasional tanks and IFVs (that has poor performance on such altitudes), kill infantry, and also assault strengthened fortifications.

Therefore, unlike the VT-5, Type 15 faces no powerful tanks, instead being more exposed to firepower like artillery strikes, autocannon fire, and infantry-carried ATGMs. Therefore Type 15 doesn't need to be as protected against anti-tank firepower like APFSDS, so more protection is required against the other threats mentioned.

Instead of using composite armour, Type 15 is freer to use heavy ERA (such as the FY-5) with high post-strike survivability. (Good ERA actually has equal/better survivability than composite) The leftover weight can be used to increase ammo load, increase mobility, install heavier electronics and auxiliary devices, and most importantly, strengthen top-protection, against those pesty artillery and top-attack ATGMs, especially against EFP projectiles. That's in my opinion why VT-5 has composite, but 15 doesn't.

mentions that it can be air dropped(?!). It is either a wrong info, or it points to a revolution in airdrop technology in China.
Well, that's purely science fiction. I can't believe people actually make up stories like this lol. o_O



Personal opinions, if there's anything wrong please help point out thx.
 
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