Z-8 and Z-18 transport helicopter - family & versions
- Thread starter Costas 240GD
- Start date
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Here come the video
antiterror13
Brigadier
what is your definition of world class? the best? .... probably not and China doesn't need to have the best engine in the world to be a dominant player
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
With WZ 16 has exactly the same or better power rating as PT6C-67B which 1250 HP. Definitely improvement over WZ 8 on Z9
The Turbomeca Arriel is a highly successful series of French engines that first ran in 1974. Weighing 109 kg (240 lb), the Arriel 1 has a power output of 520 kW (700 hp). 10,000 examples had been produced by 2012. The Zhuzhou WZ-8 (Turboshaft) and WJ-9 (Turboprop) was the designation for Turbomeca Arriel production in China.
Launched in 2003, the new-generation Ardiden covers a power range of 1,400 - 2,000 shp and is intended for use in five-to-eight ton single and twin-engine helicopters. The engine is particularly well-suited to demanding mission profiles, delivering sustained performance in hot-and-high conditions.
The Ardiden range features a remarkably compact modular architecture. The gas generator includes two centrifugal stages attached to a reverse-flow combustion chamber, a single-stage gas generator turbine and a two-stage power turbine. This design ensures that the engine remains very cost-effective, particularly in terms of maintenance and cost of ownership.
All Ardidens are equipped with the latest-generation, dual-channel Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC). The Ardiden family is divided into two groups: the Ardiden 1, which offers 1,400 shp with growth potential to 1,700 shp, and the Ardiden 3 (in development), covering 1,700 to 2,000 shp.
MwRYum
Major
At least in the military application side, having the Z-20 so far ahead in the test flight phase, there's little room left for Z-15.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
What make you think that it won't be used for military purposes ?It might not make it as transport HELI. But as ASW helicopter, it is ideal as their dimension is slightly larger than Z9. Has much higher payload and roomier. The present ASW heli KA26 doesn't have on board sonar processor all the data must be send to mother ship . Z9C and Z9D doesn't have dipping sonar Like this guy"Ausgezeichnet" Sweden NH90 ASW. Plus no belly mount search radar which give you 360 degree coverage
Z18 and Z20 are too big for most Chinese vessel of type 54 and type 56. both type are the main work horse of ASW duty
From Avia website
Despite its fairly dimensions, helicopter Avicopter AC352 model features high flight speed, good handling and maneuverability is quite acceptable, due mainly to a number of optimizations carried out.
To date, the helicopter Avicopter AC352 positioned solely as a multi-purpose civilian aircraft, however, the Chinese aircraft manufacturers do not exclude the possibility that in the near future based on the model Avicopter AC352 will be created and the military version of the aircraft, which is expected to be able to replace a number of already obsolete aircrafts of this type.
Depending on the layout of the cabin, on board an aircraft model ship Avicopter AC352 can accommodate up to 16 18 people, including two crew members and 14-16 passengers, in fact, makes it possible to operate the aircraft for commercial purposes. Among other things, the helicopter Avicopter AC352 also adapted and under the carriage on its board of various kinds of goods, the only condition which is the observance of the maximum take-off weight of the established norms, component 8 tons.
HelicopterAvicopter AC352
Helicopter Avicopter AC352 equipped with two gas turbine aircraft engines brands Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E, having thrust in 1775 hp each, or analogs produced in China, but the same capacity, which in turn provides the aircraft the ability to accelerate to speeds in 285 km \ h. (Cruising flight speed), and overcoming distances at ranges in 1250 kilometers, which is very effective.
Specifications Avicopter AC352.
- Crew: 2 rights;
- Capacity: 14 people (depending on the cabin configuration);
- helicopter length: 15,7 m .;
- The height of the helicopter: 5,3 m .;
- The diameter of the rotor: 14,8 m .;
- Weight of empty helicopter: 4750 kg .;
- Maximum takeoff weight: 8000 kg .;
- Cruising speed: 285 km \ h .;
- Maximum airspeed: 315 km \ h .;
- Maximum range of flight: 1250 km .;
- Maximum height of flight: 5720 m .;
- Powerplant: 2 x Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E (depending on layout);
- Power: 2 x 1770 hp
Data from
General characteristics
- Crew: 1 or 2 pilots
- Capacity: 10 passengers or 1,900 kg (4,189 lb) payload internal, 1,600 kg (3,527 lb) payload slung
- Length: 12.11 m (39 ft 9 in)
- Height: 4.01 m (13 ft 2 in)
- Empty weight: 2,050 kg (4,519 lb)
- Max takeoff weight: 4,100 kg (9,039 lb)
- Powerplant: 2 × turboshaft, 632 kW (848 hp) each
- Main rotor diameter: 11.94 m (39 ft 2 in)
- Main rotor area: 111.98 m2 (1,205.3 sq ft) swept area
- Maximum speed: 305 km/h (190 mph; 165 kn)
- Cruising speed: 260 km/h (162 mph; 140 kn)
- Ferry range: 1,000 km (621 mi; 540 nmi) with internal auxiliary tank
- Endurance: 5 hours
- Service ceiling: 4,500 m (14,764 ft) * Hovering Ceiling in ground effect: 2,600 m (8,530 ft)
- Hovering Ceiling out of ground effect: 1,600 m (5,249 ft)
The of an NH90
Data from AgustaWestland, Airbus Helicopters,International Directory
General characteristics
- Crew: 2 pilots (and possible sensor operator on NFH)
- Capacity: 20 seated troops; or 12 medevac stretchers; or 2 NATO pallets; or 4,200 kg (9,260 lb) external slung load
- Length: 16.13 m (52 ft 11 in)
- Rotor diameter: 16.30 m (53 ft 6 in)
- Height: 5.23 m (17 ft 2 in)
- : 6,400 kg (14,100 lb)
- Useful load: 4,200 kg (9,260 lb)
- : 10,600 kg (23,370 lb)
- : 2 × , 1,662 kW (2,230 shp) each, or:
- Powerplant: 2 × turboshaft, 1,577 kW (2,115 shp) each
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Actually, Z-9C has been equipped with a dipping sonar:
As for an asw AC352... I do not think it makes much sense to be honest. Its MTOW of AC352 is 7.5 tons -- which is better than Z-9, but not as good as a true medium weight helicopter like MH-60 or NH90.
And Z-20 already exists as a general utility/transport helicopter that can more easily be modified into the ASW role.
More importantly, I believe Z-20 can be adapted for the naval ASW helicopter role and made to fit inside the hangars of 054A and DDGs, assuming its folded dimensions is similar to MH-60 (which takes up similar volume to Ka-28). I think it makes sense to replace Z-9Cs and Ka-28s with a common ASW helicopter that an ASW Z-20 variant can fulfill.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Actually, Z-9C has been equipped with a dipping sonar:
As for an asw AC352... I do not think it makes much sense to be honest. Its MTOW of AC352 is 7.5 tons -- which is better than Z-9, but not as good as a true medium weight helicopter like MH-60 or NH90.
And Z-20 already exists as a general utility/transport helicopter that can more easily be modified into the ASW role.
More importantly, I believe Z-20 can be adapted for the naval ASW helicopter role and made to fit inside the hangars of 054A and DDGs, assuming its folded dimensions is similar to MH-60 (which takes up similar volume to Ka-28). I think it makes sense to replace Z-9Cs and Ka-28s with a common ASW helicopter that an ASW Z-20 variant can fulfill.
Ok this is the first time I see Z9C with dipping sonar MTO of 8000kg vs MTO of 4100kg 3200 vs 2000 carry on weight.That is a lot of difference. Plus Z20 is way to big to fit into the smaller ship of Type 54 or 56.Length is 20m vs 15m See how crowded the hanger is even with Z9
Z9 doesn't carry their own sonar processor and don't carry sonobuoy The search radar is located at the chin so the helicopter has to do all kind of maneuver to get 360 degree coverage
Z20 is pie in the sky. God know when are they going to be commissioned. Z15 is proven design has operational hour under the belt already. Their main market is offshore oil platform support. So it is working okay under salty environment
Specifications (S-70i)
Data from Sikorsky
General characteristics
- Crew: 2
- Capacity: 14-17 seats/12 troops/6 stretchers
- : 4,072 kg (9,000 lb) externally slung
- Length: 19.76 m (64 ft 10 in)
- Rotor diameter: 53 ft 8 in (16.36 m)
- Height: 5.33 m (17 ft 6 in)
- : 5347 kg (11,790 lb)
- : 9,979 kg (22,000 lb)
- : 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701D turboshaft, 1,409 kW (1,940 shp) at 0.462 Specific fuel consumption each
- Fuel, internal: 1,360 L
- Auxiliary Fuel: 2x 700 L tanks internally, 1,705 L (450 US gal) tank on each inboard pylon and 872 L (230 US gal) tank on each outboard pylon, or 1,705 L (450 US gal) tank on each pylon
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Yes, I agree that Z-9 obviously needs to be replaced.
However, I think Z-20 is a better role for it than Z-15.
A folded Z-9/dauphin has dimensions of 12.11m folded length, 3.25 folded width, and a total height of 4.06m (page 6: ). A Ka-27 has a folded length of 12.25m (), and a fuselage/structural width (aka folded width) of 3.8m () as well.
On the other hand, MH-60 has folded dimensions of 12.51m folded length, 3.35m folded width, and 3.95, folded height (), all of which are quite close or even within the dimensions of a folded Z-9/Ka-27.
It is only the folded length which is slightly greater than Z-9/Ka-27, and that difference is only 26cm greater than Ka-27, and there may be existing buffer space for that. I would be surprised if the Chinese Navy designed their hangars aboard their surface combatants without some growth space.
So, a folded Z-20 may be a slightly tighter fit in the hangar than a Z-9 or Ka-28, but at this point in time I don't think we can rule out the possibility that it may work.
Assuming a naval Z-20 has a similar folded dimension of MH-60 which and able to fit into the hangar of 054A and DDGs, then Z-20 should be the primary and better choice for the Navy's ASW helicopter.
What? Z-20 is obviously the more mature aircraft.
AC352 has only made its first maiden flight, whereas multiple Z-20s exist and first flew in 2013!
more importantly, Z-20 is already a military spec helicopter for utility/transport roles that can be far more easier adapted for naval/ASW role, whereas AC352 is still a civil helicopter which would require substantial modification to reach military spec let alone further modification for naval/ASW role.
If anything, between Z-20 and Z-15 it is Z-15 which is the pie in the sky...
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