Z-21/Z-X heavy attack helicopter

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votran

New Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
The Russians have no shortage of lower caliber and lower propellant guns. They probably felt they needed that much hitting power for the gun to be viable in a modern environment simple as that. Lower powder charge = shorter range and less penetration.
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they did it because it the only suitable 30mm cannon they have , the other option is twin barrel 23mm gun design on Mi-35 but with not much better in term of ammo count (only 450 rounds)

hitting power and big pen power ? nah soviet is the first nation taste the manpad infested sky , it hit them so hard to the point > entire soviet/russian helicopter CAS change from cricle around firing gun
to
just go there dumb all rockets in one go , drop flare and RTB

this tactics still being use today in ukraine ...at even further distance aka helicopter parabol rocket launch , with tactics like that having big bad long range , god pen 30mm cannon or not become ...kind of pointless
 
G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
They do it because they want to make logistics simpler by using a single projectile type. They used to have lower caliber 23mm autocannon with less muzzle velocity. Used in Mi-24 like you said. Having more or less ammo is dependent on several factors. The Mi-24 was designed as a transport aircraft with heavy weapon equipment. Unlike the Apache which its meant to carry no passengers at all. So you have different weight allowances for gun ammo. It is not hard to design a gun with reduced propellant load either. The less pressure on the gun the easier it is to design.
 
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Surpluswarrior

Junior Member
VIP Professional
drowingfish said:
that's actually a good point, perhaps in the age of drones attack helis may have a heavier role in air defence.
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Here is a recent video of a KA-52 shooting down an opposing UAV:

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Tried with guns first, then a hit with Igla-S.

Since it took some skill to shoot down the drone, use of manned helicopters against drones may be viable.
 
Cloud_Nine_

Cloud_Nine_

Junior Member
Registered Member
Surpluswarrior said:
Here is a recent video of a KA-52 shooting down an opposing UAV:

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Tried with guns first, then a hit with Igla-S.

Since it took some skill to shoot down the drone, use of manned helicopters against drones may be viable.
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Guided rockets similar to the APKWS system should be very useful on these occasions. In that sense, a high-power laser would be more useful, and a lighter gun makes more sense. I guess we'll see soon enough :)
 
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Surpluswarrior

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Just a wild guess here, but it seems these features are important for modern attack helicopters:


1. Effective stand-off weaponry and sensors / C3 to guide them

2. A gun capable of hitting small, maneuverable drones [land/sea/air]

3. Superb countermeasures suite

4. Low RCS

5. Range to operate from airbases beyond the reach of enemy GMLRS
 
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