Z-20 (all variants) thread

[antiterror13]

Do you have any proof to back up this "copyhawk" accusation?

he is just talk ... without any backup ... he has been warned though ... I dont really want to lose him, he is a good member and quite knowledgeable .... but somehow he is consistently use "copyhawk" ... perhaps he is too upset of something ... I dont know

 

[FORBIN]

he is just talk ... without any backup ... he has been warned though ... I dont really want to lose him, he is a good member and quite knowledgeable .... but somehow he is consistently use "copyhawk" ... perhaps he is too upset of something ... I dont know

Useless and not in relation with the topic and exist " reverse engineering " in China ... Super Frelon, Crotale etc...oui

 

[broadsword]

he is just talk ... without any backup ... he has been warned though ... I dont really want to lose him, he is a good member and quite knowledgeable .... but somehow he is consistently use "copyhawk" ... perhaps he is too upset of something ... I dont know

He unbannable.

There are some differences like the blades, landing gear and tail rotors. If Blackstone is what his lineage claims to be, he would not use the epithet copyhawk but 'Blackhawk-like" or 'resembling the Blackhawk'. Does anyone say the SU-27 is a copy of the F-15 even though the resemblance is strong?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Do you have any proof to back up this "copyhawk" accusation?

Don't feed the Troll.

The Z20 is taking it's time as it is a total redesign. not a one to one copy. The best comparison I can think of is how the Russians created the TU95, yes very early on they studied the B29 even made the TU4 but then they started modifying the design with indigenous technologies.
In the Same way the Chinese studied the S70 Blackhawks and Eurocopter AS365 (Z9) as well as Mil products. The End result is that the Z20 is likely sharing DNA from all three.

 

[delft]

He unbannable.

There are some differences like the blades, landing gear and tail rotors. If Blackstone is what his lineage claims to be, he would not use the epithet copyhawk but 'Blackhawk-like" or 'resembling the Blackhawk'. Does anyone say the SU-27 is a copy of the F-15 even though the resemblance is strong?

Su-27 is the F-15 done right. The configuration was developed by Tsagi and also led to the MiG-29.
OT
I remember a NASA report of a F-15 with a thinner and braced wing that was said to have a lower drag, based on calculations and tests in a supersonic wind tunnel.

 

[taxiya]

he is just talk ... without any backup ... he has been warned though ... I dont really want to lose him, (1)he is a good member and quite knowledgeable .... (2)but somehow he is consistently use "copyhawk" ... perhaps he is too upset of something ... I dont know

1. Indeed, he has quite some good insight in matters not involving China. But he becomes a jerk when anything China comes in the talk.
2. That is just a very childish act, something goes like this "please stop doing it", "I did it, I did it again and I am still doing it, lah lah lah". For a grownup in a forum, that is trolling.

If he is honest, he should call US copying rocket and turbo jet engine from Germany, Japan copying many things from US (a common topic in the 1970s and 1980s), so on and so forth.

 

[Blackstone]

Does anyone say the SU-27 is a copy of the F-15 even though the resemblance is strong?

I wouldn't say the Su-27 is a copy of the F-15, that's a bridge too far, but I would say the J-11 is a copy of the Su-27. However, "Copysu" doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "Copyhawk.", Nevertheless, the J-11 is reversed engineering product of the Su-27, with Chinese characteristics, and the Z-20 is likely the same with the S-70.

 

[broadsword]

I wouldn't say the Su-27 is a copy of the F-15, that's a bridge too far, but I would say the J-11 is a copy of the Su-27. However, "Copysu" doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "Copyhawk.", Nevertheless, the J-11 is reversed engineering product of the Su-27, with Chinese characteristics, and the Z-20 is likely the same with the S-70.

I was not into the J-11, so it is irrelevant to me in this discussion. But your opinion that the "Z-20 is likely the same with the S-70" with regard to reverse engineering is only partly there as far as the opinion of the majority of the people here is concerned. That you still refuse to listen to the opinion of the more experienced members here does not speak well of your lineage.

 

[Verum]

I wouldn't say the Su-27 is a copy of the F-15, that's a bridge too far, but I would say the J-11 is a copy of the Su-27. However, "Copysu" doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "Copyhawk.", Nevertheless, the J-11 is reversed engineering product of the Su-27, with Chinese characteristics, and the Z-20 is likely the same with the S-70.

It's not unfair to call it a copy of blackhawk, judging by the leak pic from few years ago, 99% of the military fans would mistaken it for a blackhawk at first glance.

It's almost impossible to build anything from scratch these days. In order to build anything slightly high tech, you would either have to have been doing it from the very beginning; or poach engineers, acquire existing blueprints, or copy something. Elon Musk didn't build Tesla on top of toy cars, he had to poach countless engineers from Detroit and silicon valley.

China is very new to modern helicopters. It produced less than a handful of models in the last few decades, even most of those were licensed from the French. Everyone starts from somewhere and copying is common. Trolls don't need to be so condescending about it, neither should pro-China fanboys try hard to deny it.

What most likely happened is AVIC took apart some of their remaining blackhawks and measured the crap out of it. They probably modified and updated a lot on top of the original design, while infusing techs from other choppers.

 

[broadsword]

It's not unfair to call it a copy of blackhawk, judging by the leak pic from few years ago, 99% of the military fans would mistaken it for a blackhawk at first glance.

That 99% need to learn from the more experienced watchers and there would not be so much misunderstanding.

It's almost impossible to build anything from scratch these days. In order to build anything slightly high tech, you would either have to have been doing it from the very beginning; or poach engineers, acquire existing blueprints, or copy something. Elon Musk didn't build Tesla on top of toy cars, he had to poach countless engineers from Detroit and silicon valley.

China is very new to modern helicopters. It produced less than a handful of models in the last few decades, even most of those were licensed from the French. Everyone starts from somewhere and copying is common. Trolls don't need to be so condescending about it, neither should pro-China fanboys try hard to deny it.

What most likely happened is AVIC took apart some of their remaining blackhawks and measured the crap out of it. They probably modified and updated a lot on top of the original design, while infusing techs from other choppers.

Since the Z-20 is a blend of various designs, how could you say it is just a copy of the blackhawk? I have a problem differentiating the Boeing 737 from the Airbus 320. So is the the latter a copy of the former? Even if they look different, if by using the same engines from GE, does the description still apply?