Z-20 (all variants) thread

[superdog]

The critical issue would be how they rated the 1600kw, at continuous max or contingency output? And if this is indeed the model picked for Z-20?

Not sure about the specifics of power rating. Even at contingency power it is still a bit higher than what's on the Blackhawk. But think of it this way: 1600kW is just a power class description, it is probably the upper limit of a power range that this engine platform can adapt to.

I don't know if this would be the WZ10 or something else. I know they're developing an engine this class (a PT6B replacement) for the Z-20 (2 engine) and future Z-18/AC313 (3 engine), and it may also be used on the WZ-10. I know this is not the WZ16 which is a bit smaller and shown separately. They're also developing 2000kW and 5000kW turboshafts and showed those models before, but this one looks significantly more detailed indicating that it is further down the path of development. I wouldn't be surprised if it is already running on the Z-20, or has been tested on a Z-18

 

[Totoro]

View attachment 33893 View attachment 33892

For reference the the T-700-701D used on newer Blackhawks are rated at 1279kw (continuous maximum) or 1491kw (contingency, can only run for 2.5mins). This engine appears to be considerably more powerful than the ones on a Blackhawk sized helicopter. Either they do this to achieve excellent high altitude performance on the Z-20, or it may be intended for some larger helicopters around the size of AW101.

thanks, that's a great image! i must've missed it when it was posted here the first time.

Of course, we can't know what's the intended situation for the rating. is it maximum or continuous. t01d engines are rated like you said for continuous but almost 1500 kw for maximum (short time) rating.

we also don't know how efficient transmission and blades are, nor how large/heavy z20 is. so roughly speaking, i'd still put both uh60m and z20 with this new engine in a similar class. but just as easely, z20 could have been designed to be lighter and not to carry as much payload and be designed around wz16.

This new 1600 kw engine may be ready soon or may be in development for another 5 years, who's to know. But it's certainly great for the future of PLA helicopters to have all these engines available: wz8, wz6, wz9, wz16, this future 1600 kw engine plus in a more distant future the engine stemming from the sinorussian 38 ton mtow helicopter. All these engine basically cover the entire range PLA could have a need for in the coming decades, if properly upgraded with future variants for modernity's sake.

 

[Totoro]

What about ac352 and wz16, though? Zhuhai is over, and no images of either? They weren't present at the expo?

 

[danielchin]

hope this is new, a test flight video.

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[KIENCHIN]

So the Z-20 is not a copy of black Hawk after all !

It's an upgraded version of Blackhawk

 

[superdog]

What about ac352 and wz16, though? Zhuhai is over, and no images of either? They weren't present at the expo?

I'm not aware that the ac352 was there, but they did show the WZ16 and listed its specs.



Takeoff power >= 1240kw
Maximum continuous power >= 1100kw
Fuel consumption at maximum continuous power <= 294g/kWh
Weight <= 220kg
Dimensions 1120*590*615mm

They announced during the Zhuhai expo that the ac352 will conduct its maiden flight very soon (at the end of 2016).

 

[Totoro]

Thank you for all the wonderful images! May I ask, where do you keep all those images? It's as if they're from an album that hasn't previously been made publicly available on english speaking forums...

 

[taxiya]

If it's a chance encounter the source would've left some clue as to when and where it was taken, and if it was unintended, it'd have been pulled down by now - mind you, what set this case apart is that this time is about the first time Z-20 being photographed in such degree of clarity.

But none had happened. So it was more an intended one to show the Z-20 project is still well and underway.

Z-20 is not that secretive. It is quite open for everyone to see. https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/z-20.t6294/page-54#post-423650

 

[superdog]

Thank you for all the wonderful images! May I ask, where do you keep all those images? It's as if they're from an album that hasn't previously been made publicly available on english speaking forums...

I don't keep anything, I heard those engines were shown there so I just google "Zhuhai airshow WZ16" and "Zhuhai airshow 1600kw turboshaft" in Chinese, and you get plenty of press pictures for the two engines.

 

[Blackstone]

It's an upgraded version of Blackhawk

It's a Copyhawk, period. The talented men and women in Harbin modified it for China's needs, and they may even have improved some of the Blackhawk's systems not named engine, but that doesn't make it any less of a Copyhawk.

Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for Harbin aviation; reverse engineering is very hard. Nevertheless, we need to see the world as it is and not as we wish, so it's a copy of the Blackhawk in all but name. On the other hand, I'm 100% positive China could design its own world-class helicopters (except engines), and unless facts show otherwise, that's my believe.