Z-20 (all variants) thread
- Thread starter delft
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Spellcheck turned Sino into Dino. I meant Sino-Battlehawk.
Those winglets on Blackhawk expand the mission capabilities. Torpedoes, ATGM, heavy gun pods, fuel tanks and cargo pods. S70 models even have been configured as attack choppers rivaling AH64 in firepower.
Basically. Ask a good paleontologist they will tell you that those stubby arms would bench press over 800 lbs.
Those winglets on Blackhawk expand the mission capabilities. Torpedoes, ATGM, heavy gun pods, fuel tanks and cargo pods. S70 models even have been configured as attack choppers rivaling AH64 in firepower.
I think what Z-20 needs is not anti-tank missiles (that's WZ-10's duty), but 7.62 or 12.7mm mini guns for providing suppressing fire.
Those could be installed like a piece of cake. There are no technological difficulty there.
On the other hand, adding winglets for missile is definitely more complex than putting a machine gun on.
Everyone loves the look of door gunners and their function and more than a few members over the last few years have come out suggesting it would be useful for suppression etc, to the extent that now every post I see about it is frankly a bit annoying.
But I think people are also a little bit too acclimatized with the look of "US/western" helicopters and door gunners and maybe played a few too many FPS games where the killing power of door gunners, combined, give it an impression like it is somehow an essential system for helicopters in the modern era.
IMO, for the kind of missions that the PLA's transport helicopters will be doing, door gunners are less of a priority than:
1. Having a good, functioning helicopter to begin with
2. Having a defense aids suite (LWR, MAWS, decoy launchers)
3. Difficult weather and night operation capability (PVNS)
4. Difficult terrain operation capability (radar with terrain following functions)
Door gunners are certainly useful if you're needing to suppress the area you're landing at and if you are bold enough to land near the enemy to allow your door gunners to be effective in the first place -- but there are only so many opponents where with sufficiently low capabilities to allow you to do that.
Namely, if you're fighting insurgents or irregulars without any credible MANPADS or AA weapons.
If you're not planning on that, well door guns are more of a "nice to have" than an "essential subsystem".
In the case of this Z-20 w/ KD-10s +/- maybe rocket pods, it obvious they are not intended to merely suppress enemies but to destroy AFVs and/or formations of soft skinned targets (respectively).
If the PLA ever has to fight a COIN or low intensity conflict, then I could see them installing door guns more routinely.
But right now? Nah, they're closer to dead weight.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
That kind of modification is easy. Requiring a small number of changes able to be done to even civil helicopter types. Mounting external stores is more complicated requiring hard point wiring and structural design. Door guns even if it’s just a LMG on a pintile mount serves an essential role. Even the Soviets knew this and did so on Hind and Hip choppers.
External stores offer a wider degree of flexibility in mission roles. For Naval, Special forces even heavy attack capabilities. Think of the DAPs MH60, Mil Mi24, SH60.
Well, there is also the reason that the picture of US/Western helicopters with door gunners are of the choppers that are actually flown in a war zones. In domestic bases where there are no such threat and need, those guns are taken out.
This is the case with what we are seeing with PLA's Z-20. They are training in safe domestic training grounds without real threats. What is point of putting a gunner and a gun there, when they are just going to sit/hang there doing nothing?
It's not just about warzones, but the type of warzone/opfor.
Having door gunners when you're in a low intensity conflict fighting opfors whose most capable AA weapon is maybe an RPG-7 and some AKMs certainly makes sense -- you can land your helicopter pretty close to where you want to be and where the enemy is.
But that sort of tactic is probably a little less viable if your enemy is medium or high technology with some level of organic MANPADS or AA. In that kind of situation, you'd probably be far less ambitious in choosing your landing zones to begin with, so the benefit of having door guns is far less persuasive.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
In combat Transport helicopter types are akin to flying APC. Battle Taxi that drop the fare then bug out. They use weapons like GPMG, HMG for suppression in landing forces near enemy forces.
these External stores change that a bit. It becomes a flying IFV. Offering heavy weight firepower vs enemy forces but sacrifices infantry capacity.
Low intensity or high having MG is an important factor for Air assault missions or CSAR but not every Blackhawk flies those missions. These types are multi role. The list of jobs done by S70 family is longer than my arm. Firefighting, police, VIP, medevac, assault, sling load, ASW, ASuW, CSAR, EW, C4I, SF and more.
these External stores change that a bit. It becomes a flying IFV. Offering heavy weight firepower vs enemy forces but sacrifices infantry capacity.
Low intensity or high having MG is an important factor for Air assault missions or CSAR but not every Blackhawk flies those missions. These types are multi role. The list of jobs done by S70 family is longer than my arm. Firefighting, police, VIP, medevac, assault, sling load, ASW, ASuW, CSAR, EW, C4I, SF and more.
