Z-19 armed recon helicopter

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plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
kyuryu said:
I'd agree with everything that you've said, but it seems strange that for a completely new-build scout helicopter, they elected for a chin mounted EO turret instead of a rotor or roof mounted (forward of the rotor head) electro-optical sensor turret as was the case with the US OH-58 and/or Japanese OH-1.

This would seem to somewhat negate the concept of remaining behind natural cover of tree's, hills etc and out of sight while observing enemy troop movements and/or calling in fire missions / CAS... any clues why they've taken this approach?
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It's a very good question and I honestly do not know why they did not go with a roof mounted approach. I can only think of a few possible reasons, but these are just my own personal guesses.

1) There were technical limitations that prevented the installation of a sensor ball on the roof. The Z19 seems to have similar clearance between the roof of the cockpit to the rotor blades as the OH1, so there should be enough room to put a sensor ball there. The only major difference I noted between the Z19 and the OH1 is the placement of the engines, with the Z19 embedding their engines in the main superstructure as the shaft for the main rotor, while the OH1 mounts it's engines in pods further down and much more aft. This could mean that the internal space just above and behind the cockpit on the Z19 is already taken up with too much stuff to have roof for the addition of a sensor ball.

2) Because of the placement of the engines on the Z19 as noted above, the level of vibration and head in the area where you would ideally want to put a sensor ball is too much for the gyros to compensate effective for, and if you placed a sensor ball here, you would not get good footage.

3) This is the first block Z19, we have already seen Z9s with at least two different kinds of MMW radar balls mounted in a mast housing above the rotor blades. Since the Z19 is based on the Z9, it should not be hard to adopt a similar design for the Z19, and that later versions may well have a MMW radar or or more comprehensive optical sensor ball mounted above the rotors, which would provide the best positioning and be superior to a roof mounted approach.

4) This is a first black Z19, and that a later version will feature a roof mounted optical sensor ball in addition to the chin mounted one.

5) The PLA may have decided that the all around 360 vision offered by a chin mounted underslung sensor ball is a worthy trade-off compared to the marginally better sneaky peak ability a roof mounted sensor ball would offer to raising the helo half a meter higher so the pilot in the top seat can get a look see himself.

Since the PLA currently lack a radar guided missile, if a Z19 wanted to engage a target, it would need to lift the entire plane above cover to give a clear line of sight for it's missiles anyways, so does a roof mounted sensor ball really make that much of a difference?
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
kyuryu said:
I'd agree with everything that you've said, but it seems strange that for a completely new-build scout helicopter, they elected for a chin mounted EO turret instead of a rotor or roof mounted (forward of the rotor head) electro-optical sensor turret as was the case with the US OH-58 and/or Japanese OH-1.

This would seem to somewhat negate the concept of remaining behind natural cover of tree's, hills etc and out of sight while observing enemy troop movements and/or calling in fire missions / CAS... any clues why they've taken this approach?
Click to expand...

Perhaps with something to do with complexity in construction? Z-19 is meant to be a straight-line evolution from Z-9, that means shares a large degree of hardware compatibility, that said:

1. if to mount the EO turret on the roof it'd require a good degree of clearance between the body and the rotor, and still got enough space for the whole housing to sit on, and the EO turret won't be affected by the noise and vibration of the engines;
2. if to mount the EO turret on top of the rotor shaft, the whole rotor shaft will need to be redesign for that.

There has been nothing to confirm that Chinese have made enough headway for something like that; or on a positive side of thinking, Z-19's current configuration is meant to be a low-risk approach of things - a working model that fits all the required baseline specifications, then when production underway work on improvement model to get those nice toys integrated.
 
lcloo

lcloo

Captain
Task of scout chopper is to locate enemy and determine their numbers and strength, once that is done, it will just move out of harms way. The rest of the jobs will be done by rockets, artillery or ground attack aircrafts.

Attacking a target is just a chance opportunity rather than a mission goal, thus chin mounted chain gun is not added, however if the need arrised as in escort scout duty for armour columns and transport choppers, gun pods can be mounted as well as rockets, guilded missiles and short range AAM on its sides.

Being a light weight chopper, carrying a heavy chin mounted gun permanently may impose weight liability especially if routine missions do not call for target shooting, and also may reduce weight carrying capacity for other weapon/equipment.
 
G

getready

Senior Member
This helo is already in service right? I remember some naysayer in this thread was confident the Z-19 is never going to be in service.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
getready said:
This helo is already in service right? I remember some naysayer in this thread was confident the Z-19 is never going to be in service.
Click to expand...

As of now it looks like either pre-production batch or final phase of operational testing, they've yet appeared in numbers to indicate full-speed production, or even replacing the Z-9 that currently serving the said roles Z-19 is envisioned to perform.
 
escobar

escobar

Brigadier
:p

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