Guns are not to take out heavy armour. ATGM and rocket pod will be in used instead. 14.5mm guns and rounds are enough to knock out light armour vehicles and not to mention personnel. I do not see it as useless.
Z-10 thread
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Guns are not to take out heavy armour. ATGM and rocket pod will be in used instead. 14.5mm guns and rounds are enough to knock out light armour vehicles and not to mention personnel. I do not see it as useless.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
When I saw that pic, I had to pull out the ruler and that can be 23mm. The usual calibres are smaller than I thought.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Like I said My opinion, and My opinion is not alone in that assessment every modern antitank Attack helicopter that packs a Gun packs at least a 20mm cannon, the only known and Proven platforms that differ on that were early variations of the Mi24 Hind D (Yakushev-Borzov YakB 12.7x108mm Russian) and AH1 bell Cobra (7.62x51mm "Minigun") and both those Frames now have 20mm or 30mm Cannons. Those cannons are multirole not just against Armor but making a real mess of infantry and light vehicles. My opinion is "It's not a true attack Helicopter unless it's packing a cannon and the best cannon for a AH sits in the 25mm-30mm calibre."
kwaigonegin
Colonel
People have to realized that the concept of AH itself has transform many times since it was first conceived. The AH-1 cobra was originally thought up because the UH-1 and later versions of 'huey' provided inadequate protection for the crew fighting in Vietnam. The machine gun door gunner is also venerable to enemy small arms fireas well. They needed something that is small, quick, heavily armed to escort the Hueys in the jungles of Vietnam to take out enemy machine gun nest or spray lead and rockets over suspected 'Charlie' compound.
The AH-64 (and later RAH-66), Tigre etc were initially conceived for one reason and one reason only: to stop the massive Soviet Armor rolling through the Fulda Gap in Western Europe that luckily never materilized. It's main role is tank busting and everything else secondary.
Of course the world has changed since then. The last time the AH 64 was used as it was designed was in the 1991 Gulf War. Not to say it is not an effective weapons platform nowadays but I've seen too many videos of the Apaches opening up on suspected roadside bombers or militants with Hellfires and the Hydra rockets. I have also seen them spray folks with the 30 mm chain gun and I can imagined the sight is probably not pretty. In either case of fighting terrorists on the roadside, I think an armed helicopter with a smaller caliber weapon is probably more effective. Being an arm chair general I would think any Apaches operating in Iraq and Afghanistan today would be better off swapping out their Hellfire launchers for 7.62 or 12 mm gun pods. The odds of encountering any enemy armor in either country is ZERO. Last I check Al Queda doesn't have any MBTs.
As to the AH of China, I am not sure what their specific purpose is yet since there is no credible threat of massive armor penetration into it but it is good that they are getting their feet wet because armor or not there is no doubt the AH is a very useful weapons platform that can be adapted to many different combat scenerios and the chassis themselves can be modified pretty much in an unlimited fashion. The AH-1Z Viper is basically a totally different helicopter than the AH-1G serve in Vietnam.
asif iqbal
Banned Idiot
Hellfire and other anti-tank missiles are not only used for armour
They have been used extensively and widely to hit even single targets, when the distance is great and gun is no longer the preferred weapons anti-tank missiles are used, also when they hit mud buildings they use ATGM
They have been used extensively and widely to hit even single targets, when the distance is great and gun is no longer the preferred weapons anti-tank missiles are used, also when they hit mud buildings they use ATGM
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Indeed, as the Israelis have found, the shaped charge HEAT warhead of the Hellfire produces an extremely powerful yet highly localized explosion, and is very effective in taking out high value soft targets in densely populated urban areas with minimal risk of collateral damage.
When you are fighting in an urban environment, often the enemy will use cover, and sometimes the only thing that will reliably punch through the re-enforced concrete some sniper is hiding behind is a Hellfire or equivalent.
Getting back to the cal of gun attack helos carry, I took think 20mm is the bare minimum effective cal you can go down to. Any lower and you are giving up too much.
A higher cal gun not only gives you more firepower and increased flexibility in the kinds of munitions it can fire, but more critically, it also gives you a range advantage over the vast majority of infantry mobile anti-air guns, which can make a massive difference as being able to engage the enemy without them being able to effective fight back is no small advantage.
Looking at the Z10's gun, it looks to be 20mm at least, probably higher since that soldier looks to be cleaning the barrel of the gun, and unless he has freakishly small hands, the stick he is using looks to be easily 20-30+mm thick.
asif iqbal
Banned Idiot
Not sure Lion but certainly doesn't look like a 14.5mm nowhere near, my estimate is 20mm+ would not be suprised if that is indeed a 30mm cannon, depends how thick the barrel is but that looks close to a 30mm to me
If it is a 30mm then that is a deadly chain gun, 30mm causes havoc on the ground it's a very powerful gun and rips apart cars and trucks
It would also show what kind of intention China has for this this helo
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
No PLA has never shown use of a 20mm cannon so that would leave 23mm, 25mm, 30mm or 35mm It looks too small for the last one.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
WZ-10 helmet.
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