Z-10 thread

[gelgoog]

@plawolf it would be the equivalent of the Ka-52K used in the Egyptian Mistral amphibious ships or the AH-1Z Viper the US Marines use.
I agree that many of these missions can be done with drones in the long term. But right now I think an assault helicopter makes sense for an amphibious assault force. The idea would be to carry them on the LHDs. I think the whole concept requires so little effort that it is bound to happen. The fact that we are seeing Z-10s in exercises with naval ships is an indication that they are evaluating the concept already. Similar to how the Russians evaluated carrier operations of the Ka-52 before making the specialized Ka-52K for carrier operations.

A marine assault helicopter like this could basically engage small enemy ships like patrol boats and mop up opposition in hardened shore based positions to soften them up for a marine troop assault. You also have to remember that the PRC plan to use tanks to repel any initial PLA beach assault on Taiwan. So having an assault helicopter for such an operation makes sense I think.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Is this post talking about the same crash? because it claims that the pilots did not survive. I do think the claim is suspicious because the helo looks pretty intact, with no fire or anything. The pilots probably had a shock, some bruises, probably a fracture if the fall is high enough, but not dead.

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It's the same photo so I assume they are talking about the same crash.

 

[plawolf]

@plawolf it would be the equivalent of the Ka-52K used in the Egyptian Mistral amphibious ships or the AH-1Z Viper the US Marines use.
I agree that many of these missions can be done with drones in the long term. But right now I think an assault helicopter makes sense for an amphibious assault force. The idea would be to carry them on the LHDs. I think the whole concept requires so little effort that it is bound to happen. The fact that we are seeing Z-10s in exercises with naval ships is an indication that they are evaluating the concept already. Similar to how the Russians evaluated carrier operations of the Ka-52 before making the specialized Ka-52K for carrier operations.

A marine assault helicopter like this could basically engage small enemy ships like patrol boats and mop up opposition in hardened shore based positions to soften them up for a marine troop assault. You also have to remember that the PRC plan to use tanks to repel any initial PLA beach assault on Taiwan. So having an assault helicopter for such an operation makes sense I think.

Except all dedicated attack helicopters carried by LHDs are for amphibious assault fire support, as is in keeping with the basic role of LHDs.

Their ability to engage patrol boats are very much incidental and to be frank, quite rudimentary in that they just use the same weapons they would for CAS to do the job.

I am not aware of any LHD dedicated attack helicopters being integrated with naval light AShMs that traditional multiple role naval helicopters would have integrated as standard.

Can it be done? Sure, but literally no one has seen any need to do so when they already have existing multiple ship borne helicopters that can fill that role perfectly adequately, and certainly no worse than attack helicopters can.

The only benefit to using attack helicopters for Maritime strike would be if you were going after Somali pirates where the goal isn’t destruction but capture, so the turreted auto cannon is useful for scaring the pirates witless, and the heavy armour is good for tanking small arms fire. That is literally the only example I can think of where using an attack helicopter would yield any benefits.

 

[lcloo]

If any enemy missile boats managed to get within firing range to attack a type 075/071 beach assault group, itis already a failure on the part of the commanding officer of the beach assault operation. The limited range of the attack helicopters' missiles won't be effectively prevent enemy from missile launches.

China always emphasised the 3D concept in their military exercises. In beach assault operation, employing only type 075/071 and a few escorts is not going to happen.

In a real scenario, a protection zone secured by air, surface, underwater and space elements that extends to hundreds km (depends on the missile range of enemy ships) away from the beach head. Enemy missile boats would be attacked by J15/J16/SU-30MKK/MK2/JH7 and destroyers/frigate, even before the enemy boats can get within missile range of the helicopters from the landing ships.

Only small nations with in-suffient air, surface and underwater assets (thus unable to deploy effective security zone to protect beachheads), would need helicopters to counter enemy missile boats. China on the other hand can afford to give specialised roles to their different weapon platforms. They don't need attack helicopters to counter missiles boats in beach assault operation as there are more than adequate and more effective options available.

 

[Bercerkers]

Good evening everyone!
Could you tell me - what are the external differences between the serial Z-10 helicopter from its "Pre-serial" version?

 

[by78]

Posting three images of Z-10s. I'm sure you can all see and read the serial numbers. Normally I wouldn't share such mundane and uninteresting images, but I'm doing this to prevent a certain obsessive-compulsive pedant (who suffers from

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) from clogging this thread with yet another phone book-sized list of mind-numbingly irrelevant trivia, which does nothing but waste an enormous amount of time and screen real estate.

 

[Bercerkers]

Good morning everybody !
I would not ask (perhaps) for someone "Such a stupid" question. But my hobby forces me to do it.
I'm a bench model and really want to build the Z-10 and Z-19 in 1 / 72nd scale. But the problem is that only on this site I found really good photos and some information on these helicopters. But since I do not know English well, it is very difficult for me to read the 275 pages of the forum, so I decided to ask the interesting questions here - to knowledgeable people.
I apologize in advance if someone thinks my questions are stupid.

But for me it is very important to know what external differences the serial helicopter had from the pre-Syrian one. To collect both options for helicopters.
Here are the two models I am planning to do.

 

[Deino]

Good morning everybody !
I would not ask (perhaps) for someone "Such a stupid" question. But my hobby forces me to do it.
I'm a bench model and really want to build the Z-10 and Z-19 in 1 / 72nd scale. But the problem is that only on this site I found really good photos and some information on these helicopters. But since I do not know English well, it is very difficult for me to read the 275 pages of the forum, so I decided to ask the interesting questions here - to knowledgeable people.
I apologize in advance if someone thinks my questions are stupid.

But for me it is very important to know what external differences the serial helicopter had from the pre-Syrian one. To collect both options for helicopters.
Here are the two models I am planning to do.

I must admit, I'm a bit surprised since I don't know the second kit (WZ-10) but from my understanding, the two model-kits you showed are quite realistic options for both the pre-serial variant (= left kit) and the serial variant (= right kit)


Pre-serial one (now in service as the Z-10H)

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Serial one:

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Main differences are the engine nacelles, the tail and the sensors.


PS: and a Z-19 is available via DreamModels

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[Bercerkers]

Должен признать, я немного удивлен, так как я не знаю второй комплект (WZ-10), но, насколько я понимаю, два модельных комплекта, которые вы показали, являются вполне реалистичными вариантами для обоих предсерийных вариантов (= слева комплект) и серийный вариант (= правый комплект)


Предсерийный (сейчас на вооружении как Z-10H)
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Серийный:
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Основные отличия - гондолы двигателей, хвостовое оперение и датчики.


PS: и Z-19 доступен через DreamModels

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Не могли бы вы рассказать об этом поподробнее ?!
Какие датчики ?!
Моторные гондолы, насколько я понимаю, различаются - только направлением выхлопных труб и размещением воздухозаборников?
А у хвостового оперения разница только в нижней части, в районе заднего колеса?

 

[Bercerkers]

I have a model, but there is very little information (
Unfortunately, there are no drawings at all.