Z-10 thread

[Deino]

Guys ... please calm down !

 

[Hendrik_2000]

All that I see here is a wall of text basically saying "bla bla bla you're not an engineer therefore I'm right bla bla bla". Yes, you're the same "engineer" that gave me a bunch of bullshit numbers and then pulled out the definition of "hypothesis" to prove that you were right all along. LOLOLOLOL

I'm not EVER trying to prove on SDF that "China is inferior" in the same way that you are always trying to "prove" that China is superior. You mistake my motivations. By nature I am skeptical and would like to see evidence before rejecting a null hypothesis. Your problem is that your "null" hypothesis is that Chinese military is super-duper awesome until proven otherwise, and even when proven otherwise, Chinese military is still super-duper awesome. It is a plain fact to everybody (who is not a fanboi) that the Z-10 is underpowered for its dry weight compared to similarly-sized helos like the AH-64 and Rooivalk. This is ok for most of us, especially since WZ-16 is (probably) on its way in, but because you are a fanboi, this is clearly NOT ok for you. LOL

Again you are insinuating where do I say China is superior? show me I never did

You are the one that need glass after saying that Yuyi only has 1/3 volume of LCAC . And you are the one that refute the existence of hypothesis

The graphic is not complete it is only sample It is not written in the stone that only those 3 configuration is available.

The paragraph that I cite for reference clearly said Z10 is medium weight helicopter . If you don't know that and refuse to accept it there is no need to discuss it anymore!

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Right here:


This is a fallacy called

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. Usage of a fallacy, as delineated in the

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on intellectual dishonesty, is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty.

And I don't link these articles for shits and giggles, I'd advise you to actually read and understand them.

I also never called you 'dishonest', only intellectually dishonest. They are different concepts.


As for your entire argument with Iron Man, I'm siding with you in that the Z-10 likely belongs in a lower weight class to the Apache. I have serious doubts about the 5t empty weight statistic given for the Z-10 considering it comes from a Sina article which also claimed the Z-10's design incorporated imported Russian ejection seats. The Z-10 looks to be lighter than the Apache but there hasn't been any concrete data released by the PLA.

Where do I claim authority no where did I claim authority. My problem with Iron man is he does not understand the process of engineering when the paragraph said 6 ton That mean only the starting point in process. You might not get 6 ton because lack of efficient engine maybe.They thought they can get away with loaded weight of 6 ton The weight will slide to 7 ton. they clearly intend to have medium weight helicopter. Whatever empty weight that will result it is the the consequent of the loaded weight and not the other way around. If they want heavy weight helicopter they will specify 8 or 9 ton helicopter.

That is normal I encountered it everyday What we promise the client doesn't mean he will get it I don't backtrack anything here

It is hard to talk to some one if you don't have the background!

 

[Deino]

To admit I don't know where to sort this Z-10A showing the serial number LH990101?

Any idea?

Deino

 

[Iron Man]

Again you are insinuating where do I say China is superior? show me I never did

You are the one that need glass after saying that Yuyi only has 1/3 volume of LCAC . And you are the one that refute the existence of hypothesis

The graphic is not complete it is only sample It is not written in the stone that only those 3 configuration is available.

The paragraph that I cite for reference clearly said Z10 is medium weight helicopter . If you don't know that and refuse to accept it there is no need to discuss it anymore!

First of all, I never said that Yuyi has one-third the volume of LCAC. I said that Yuyi can only CARRY one-third the volume of LCAC. Let's not start weaseling with words and get dishonest again.

Second, if the graphic is "not complete" and doesn't show what you want it to show, then why did you even post it in the first place? How does it even remotely help your argument to post a non-relevant CGI? Smoke and mirrors, that's how. That's your forte here on SDF.

Third, that reference to a medium weight helicopter does NOT prove in any way, shape or form that the AH-64 is therefore a heavy weight attack helicopter, or that "medium weight" as used in that reference is used in the context of a formal classification scheme of attack helicopters.

 

[jobjed]

To admit I don't know where to sort this Z-10A showing the serial number LH990101?

Any idea?

Deino

These Z-10s belong to the Feng Lei (风雷) helicopter aerobatic team. The '90' in 990101 is probably referring to this team. Everything else should be the same as other LH serials.

Another theory is that the '90' is meant to minus '9' because LH is represented by 9, which leads to 90 - 9 = 81, or 81st GA LH brigade. However, I find that theory unlikely considering that 81st GA's Z-10s were spotted very recently with their 941XX serials. Thus, the first theory is the most likely, IMO.

 

[Deino]

These Z-10s belong to the Feng Lei (风雷) helicopter aerobatic team. The '90' in 990101 is probably referring to this team. Everything else should be the same as other LH serials.

Another theory is that the '90' is meant to minus '9' because LH is represented by 9, which leads to 90 - 9 = 81, or 81st GA LH brigade. However, I find that theory unlikely considering that 81st GA's Z-10s were spotted very recently with their 941XX serials. Thus, the first theory is the most likely, IMO.

But since the Feng Lei previously had LH94xxx-serials it would fit !

Thanks again.

 

[jobjed]

But since the Feng Lei previously had LH94xxx-serials it would fit !

Thanks again.

That is interesting. Does that imply Feng Lei is now clearly separated from 81st GA's LH brigade or will 81st GA's LH brigade also adopt 990XXX serials?

 

[Deino]

Actually I don't know ... I'm just in a "team" of some guys analysing the latest PLAAF, PLANAF and PLA Army Aviation changes and they are so much profound that it is IMO too early to tell.

Deino

 

[szbd]

To admit I don't know where to sort this Z-10A showing the serial number LH990101?

Any idea?

Deino

View attachment 41980

This aircraft belongs to "wind thunder" aerobatic team.