World News Thread & Breaking News!!

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
It's being reported that one of the people killed might've been run over accidentally by a rescue vehicle. Unclear if the person had already died but if the two were from the back of the plane, probably didn't survive from the velocity alone.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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Is it considered normal for pilots to do visual landings in good weather with these large commercial jets? I've always thought that pilots usually use the ILS for landing unless theres horrible weather.

Apparently what was out was not the whole ILS, but the ELS which tracks the aircraft down the glide slope for the auto landing sequence,,,,, as a result, no auto throttles, and pitch and yaw control with the hands and feet,,, no problem, all General Aviation pilots do most of their landings manually, and the ILS was likely showing the aircraft position relative to the glide slope and runway centerline. A pilot called Rush Limbaugh and stated that they were initially high and close in, they popped the flaps and spoilers and pulled the throttles all the way back, this fooled the auto throttles into thinking that the A/C was landing the aircraft, not trying to maintain the glide slope. In that high rate of decent the blew right through the bottom of the glidepath, I believe I heard the rate of decent was 1500 fpm, and the standard rate decent is 500 fpm. As I stated earlier, the A/C was behind the airplane the whole way, and yes I was with a friend in the right seat of a Mitsubishi turbo-prop, we were at cruise and he asked me, did they clear us to land, I said, I think so???? Popped the flaps, Throttles to flight idle and if I'm not mistaken, I think he booted right rudder and put the left wing down and slipped her the whole way, we had a crosswind from the North, naturally, throttles up to break the decent and Ka-blamo, we had arrived, a lousy sorry approach, followed by an equally lousy landing----"yes, it ALWAYS works out that way, we were "both" behind the airplane, scared the living "sugar" out of me, three weeks later, he was dead!

But yes, It is really no problem to land any aircraft visually, with the possible exception of the U-2 which is talked down by another pilot in a chase vehicle, telling you how high you are, heck, I could land a 777 after a couple of hours in the simulator, but yes they were "significantly below target airspeed, so a very bad approach followed by an equally bad touchdown and complete loss of control of the accident aircraft. Horrible, and its at moments like that that I wonder why I love flying so much, but its in my blood, that's why I'm the Air Force Brat.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
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This pilot had over 9,000 flying hours, a lot of it with 747s, but was new to the 777. The instructor pilot in the co-pilot's seat had 12,000 hours flying, and over 3,000 hours with 777s.

If those numbers are right they sure don't sound like rookies to me. As a matter a fact they would be what I considered pretty experienced pilots.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
If those numbers are right they sure don't sound like rookies to me. As a matter a fact they would be what I considered pretty experienced pilots.
They were very experienced. But the one piloting the aircraft was just learning the 777, and this was his first landing at SFO in a 777.

Who knows what the root cause was? but apparently it had something to do with that particular runway and an effort to wave off and fly around by the crew.

The investigators indicated today that the 777 had slowed to 103 MPH before trying to give it power and go around. 103 MPH will not hold a 777 in the air...it was too late. Minimum is 120 MPH I believe, or thereabouts.
 

T-U-P

The Punisher
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Apparently what was out was not the whole ILS, but the ELS which tracks the aircraft down the glide slope for the auto landing sequence,,,,, as a result, no auto throttles, and pitch and yaw control with the hands and feet,,, no problem, all General Aviation pilots do most of their landings manually, and the ILS was likely showing the aircraft position relative to the glide slope and runway centerline.
Exactly, even if they don't let the autopilot land the plane, they still get the glide slope info and they can still see their progress. This should not have happened even if the one flying is pretty new to the 777, he's still an experienced pilot for large airliners. Although I did read news reports saying that the glide slope signal system was down at SFO at the time.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
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They were very experienced. But the one piloting the aircraft was just learning the 777, and this was his first landing at SFO in a 777.

Who knows what the root cause was? but apparently it had something to do with that particular runway and an effort to wave off and fly around by the crew.

The investigators indicated today that the 777 had slowed to 103 MPH before trying to give it power and go around. 103 MPH will not hold a 777 in the air...it was too late. Minimum is 120 MPH I believe, or thereabouts.

Well lets cut to the chase, the 777 is a very "easy" airplane to fly, it is complicated, but it has NO bad habits, the fact that it didn't fall out of the sky with such inept aircraft management is testament to Boeing, like those suggesting autolanding on the Liaoning, this points out the abject ignorance of allowing electronics to fly your aircraft for you. It also points out the abject stupidity of mixing UCAV's up close and personal with people, equipment "LOVES" to fail, ALL equipment is just waiting for an excuse to take a day off. This aircraft is NOT at fault, SFO is not at fault, this is about an over-reliance on automated systems to make up for "talent", airmanship like seamanship is becoming a lost art. It must be promoted to front and center, first in the A/C's mind and management really ought to be taken out and horse-whipped for such a callous and wanton disregard for the responsibility of providing your passengers with the safest possible flying experience, first off by providing airmen of the first caliber, and secondly safe and well maintained equipment.

Did the ELS being offline contribute to this accident??? certainly, did it cause it???? certainly not! I will be looking into SFO on Flight Simulator X, but the real issue is poor planning and poor execution of the decent, that they ended up high and hot is simply life, that they managed to place themselves, their passengers and their aircraft in a life threatening situation is inexcusable, a go around at any juncture would have allowed them to fly a "normal approach profile", and saved the lives of these two young ladies, and the horrible injuries of many others, the careers of these two????? AVIATORS?????? and this beautiful, sweet aircraft, that tried so hard to fly,,,, 103 Knots???? GREAT CEASAR's GHOST!
 

T-U-P

The Punisher
Staff member
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And btw, as far as I know auto throttle does not depend on any external references (such as a glide slope). I think it is a totally separate autopilot function (from those that controls attitude). Based on what I read and some simulator experiences, it should've been possible to fly a visual landing with auto throttle.
 

Jeff Head

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New York Times/Reuters said:
BEIRUT — Foreign forces destroyed advanced Russian anti-ship missiles in Syria last week, rebels said on Tuesday - a disclosure that appeared to point to an Israeli raid.

Qassem Saadeddine, spokesman for the Free Syrian Army's Supreme Military Council, said a pre-dawn strike on Friday hit a Syrian navy barracks at Safira, near the port of Latakia. He said that the rebel forces' intelligence network had identified newly supplied Yakhont missiles being stored there.

"It was not the FSA that targeted this," Saadeddine told Reuters. "It is not an attack that was carried out by rebels.

"This attack was either by air raid or long-range missiles fired from boats in the Mediterranean," he said.

Rebels described huge blasts - the ferocity of which, they said, was beyond the firepower available to them but consistent with that of a modern military like Israel's.

Israel has not confirmed or denied involvement. The Syrian government has not commented on the incident, beyond a state television report noting a "series of explosions" at the site.

Such weaponry, Israeli officials have made clear, would include the long-range Yakhonts, which could help Hezbollah repel Israel's navy and endanger its offshore gas rigs. In May, Israel and its U.S. ally complained about Moscow sending the missiles to Syria. Israel said they would likely end up with Hezbollah. The Lebanese group has said it does not need them.

Asked about the Latakia blasts, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon told reporters: "We have set red lines in regards to our own interests, and we keep them. There is an attack here, an explosion there, various versions - in any event, in the Middle East it is usually we who are blamed for most."

Hmmm...I would not doubt, that had the Syrians taken delivery of Yakhonts, that the Israelis would seek to destroy them.
 
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Jeff Head

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USA Today said:
SANFORD, Fla.--George Zimmerman, the man accused of murdering Trayvon Martin, was found not guilty of second-degree murder and manslaughter on Saturday.

The verdict is the culmination of a case that captured the nation's attention and will undoubtedly be imprinted in America's history. For Zimmerman, it means trying to recapture his life after he was at the center of a national maelstrom over racial profiling, state gun laws and what constitutes self-defense.

The not guilty verdict means the jury of six women found that Zimmerman justifiably used deadly force and reasonably believed that such force was "necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm" to himself — Florida's definition of self-defense.

Zimmerman showed no emotion as the verdict was read. After the verdict was read, he smiled slightly and shook hands with one of his lawyers.

The unidentified jurors decided Zimmerman didn't "intentionally commit an act or acts that caused death" or demonstrate a "depraved mind without regard for human life" --Florida's definitions of manslaughter and second degree murder, respectively.

In a press conference after the verdict, Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara said his client will now need to get on with his life.

"I think he's going to be great. I think he is still worried. Hopefully everyone will respect the jury's verdict," O'Mara said.

He offered his sympathies to Trayvon's parents for the loss of their son. But he said despite the national protests that erupted after the shooting, the case had nothing to do with civil rights.

Zimmerman's brother, Robert, told CNN's Piers Morgan that his brother was processing the reality that he is free.

"He has some decompressing to do," he said. "Our family was emotional. We are exonerated as a family and George is exonerated as a defendant. It's going to take us some time to heal."

For all the euphoria on Zimmerman's team, prosecutors and Trayvon's family faced a huge letdown. Trayvon's parents were not in the courtroom when the verdict was read.

Trayvon's father Tracy posted on Twitter, "Even though I am broken-hearted, my faith is unshattered. I will always love my baby Tray ... even in his death I know my baby proud of the FIGHT we along with all of you put up for him."

The family's attorney Benjamin Crump thanked all the protesters nationwide who "put their hoodies up and to everybody who said, 'I am Trayvon.' " He urged supporters to remain peaceful, despite the verdict.

Lead prosecutor Bernie De la Rionda said, "I am disappointed in the verdict but I respect it. We accept the jury's verdict."

My own feeling is this. I have followed the trial closely...each day. The Jury clearly looked at the evidence, which was overwhelming for the defense and Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's nose was broken and his face was bruised and bloodied after the confrontation. He had cuts and bruises on the back of his head. He had grass stains on the back of his shirt and pants. Treyvon had no injuries from the fight, except the gunshot wound. There were scrapes on his knuckles. And he had grass stains on his knees. All of this was supported by the fiorensic evidence and was not challenged.

It is clear who was delivering a beating, and who was receiving it. An eye witness indicated Treyvon was on top of Zimmerman and hitting him. Clearly, the one who was screaming histerically, and terrified for help, was the one being beaten, not the one on top doing the beating.

In almost all cases, the prosecution witnesses, under cross examination, gave testimony that ended up supporting Zimmerman's story.

It is tragic that things happened like they did. But neither person had broken any laws, or committed any crime, and could have walked away from this up until the time one of them decided to sucker punch the other in the face, break his nose and knock him down. Even then Treyvon could have walked away and had very little long term personal consequence. But when he began beating Zimmerman on the ground as he did, he took a path that led to his death. Zimmerman finally shot, and the forensic evidence showed that Treyvon was shot at close range, with the bullet traveling upward through his body (and his heart) while Zimmerman was on the ground.

There simply was not evidence of any hate crimes. There was simply no evidence of murder or negligence. The jury decided that Zimmerman was defending himself.

We know now that Zimmerman, an Hispanic male, mentored young black kids in his spare time. No racist there at all.

No, it is tragic that a 17 year old young man was killed. He was not a "little" kid. He was 6' 2" tall, 170 lbs, and was quite muscular and fit as a high school football player. Zimmerman was 5'9", also weighed around 170 lbs, but was not in good shape and over weight.

Would Zimmerman have died that night? We will never know. But he clearly thought he was in great danger, and he was definitely being beat up. So he finally pulled his gun and shot in self defense.

I pray the country can move on from this. This case was trumped up by politicians, the Media, and those seeking a racial cause. The local police had already pretty much determined what this jury found and that is why Zimmerman was released after being taken to the police station that night. These types of things happen fairly often in this nation of 350 million.

For example, shortly before this event, a black man, who was being stalked by 4-5 white thugs, was at home one night when these thugs came to his house and began calling him names, and throwing rocks at his home from his drive way. He was safe in his home. It was secure and he was armed. He did not have to go out. But they were on his property and he decided to go out and confront them. There was an argument. One of the young men, about 19 years old, charged the man yelling that he was going to hurt him. The man shot...and the 19 year old died.

That man was not tried. He was not arrested for murder or manslaughter. Everyone knew these kids were on his property and up to no good. He could have stayed inside, but he decided to confront the evil on his property and when attacked, he defended himself. I have no problem with it...and believe more Americans should send such messages to criminals when they are threatened. 911 takes on average 9 minutes for anyone to get there. Usually by that time, it is over.

That above case happened in Florida by the way...and there was no outcry, no demands to punish that man for killing the much younger man. It was clearly self defense...as was this case with Zimmerman.
 
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