Why "the West" gets China wrong

You guys be careful. Two subjects shall not be named in this forum and one was just touched upon. I suggest not going any further.

You gents heed what A-Mace posted..he's been in this forum for nearly eight years.

And read the rules.

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ann...-before-posting-important-please-read-20.html

I) The discussion of Tienanmen Square & Tibet is forbidden.

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bd popeye super moderator

I think the West gets China wrong by not having high level officials pay their respects at the Nanjing Massacre Memorial. They always make sure to go to the Jewish Holocaust Memorial. This slight sends a bad message that the lives of Chinese are worthless and that Chinese sacrifice and loss in WW2 is not worth acknowledging.

Same token, why don't China send their high level representatives to the USS Arizona Memorial commemorating the Pearl Harbour attack? Perhaps a good suggestion as then the Chinese and the Western powers will appreciate the futility of war and hostilities, and discourage 'bullying' by any potential aggressor in future.

ABC78 said:

I think the West gets China wrong by not having high level officials pay their respects at the Nanjing Massacre Memorial. They always make sure to go to the Jewish Holocaust Memorial. This slight sends a bad message that the lives of Chinese are worthless and that Chinese sacrifice and loss in WW2 is not worth acknowledging.

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advill said:

Same token, why don't China send their high level representatives to the USS Arizona Memorial commemorating the Pearl Harbour attack? Perhaps a good suggestion as then the Chinese and the Western powers will appreciate the futility of war and hostilities, and discourage 'bullying' by any potential aggressor in future.

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Pearl Harbour was a military engagement, the Japanese actually were careful to avoid civilian casualties, Nanjing was the deliberate slaughter, plunder and rape of the civilian population of one of China's most populace cities, atrocities which were repeated in places like Singapore, specifically targeting people of Chinese ethnicity.

If Americans get targeted on this level please point it out.

advill said:

Same token, why don't China send their high level representatives to the USS Arizona Memorial commemorating the Pearl Harbour attack? Perhaps a good suggestion as then the Chinese and the Western powers will appreciate the futility of war and hostilities, and discourage 'bullying' by any potential aggressor in future.

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Hu Jintao visited both the Arizona and Ground Zero.

Chinese Vice President Hu Jintao will be the guest of honor Saturday at an official state luncheon in Waikiki during his first visit to the islands.

Hu, who is seen as the successor to Jiang Zemin as Chinese Communist Party chief later this year and as president in 2003, will arrive Saturday morning at Hickam Air Force Base and be greeted by Gov. Ben Cayetano.

The arrival will be closed to the public because of security concerns.

Following the luncheon at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, to which 200 people have been invited, Hu will visit the USS Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor.

He will leave Hickam for New York on Sunday to visit "Ground Zero," where the twin towers of the World Trade Center stood before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Jiang also spent a little more than 24 hours on Oahu. However, his arrival at Hickam was open to about 200 members of the local Chinese community. Cayetano held a state dinner for him during his visit, at Washington Place, which drew more than 100 human rights demonstrators.

It was Jiang's second visit to Hawaii. He had also come to the islands when he was mayor of Shanghai. In 1997, Jiang was able to try his hand at hula and swam for an hour in the waters off the Hilton Hawaiian Village.

A private gift exchange session is planned for Hu.

Hu will meet with congressional leaders on Tuesday in Washington, D.C., and with Secretary of State Colin Powell over dinner later that day.

On Wednesday, Hu will meet separately with Vice President Dick Cheney and President Bush, and make a speech on U.S.-Chinese relations at a private dinner meeting.

Hu is expected to press for the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Palestinian territory when he meets Bush.

A Hu spokeswoman has said Israel should also lift all travel restrictions on Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, who remains trapped in his Ramallah headquarters in the West Bank.

China is a member of the United Nations Security Council, which demanded in March and early April an immediate cease-fire and an Israeli withdrawal from all West Bank cities "without delay."

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I'm not even going to get into the forbidden topic, but I am surprised how some people can actually justify the use of lethal force against innocent civilians.

By definition of innocent, this means not deserving the use of lethal force as they do not pose as justifiable threat that warrants this treatment.

And for the same reason this is why so much spotlight was put on that particular place that night. You all should recall that the West was still quite warm with Beijing right up until before this event occurred, so there's no true purpose to fabricate.

Furthermore, there were also footage shown of armors running through the square that night, so how the event could even be disputed as justified or proposed as all a hoax is just totally beyond acceptable.

There's a patch of grass where you're permitted to stand on and disagree with the West's lack of understanding and interpretation of China, but it's by no means acceptable to start dragging into other issues and smearing those too with your disagreement. That's just applying a sentiment of your dissatisfaction and tying irrelevant issues into place, a very fallible and irrational behavior. It is a form of appeal by emotions, except appealed to one's original attitudes towards something.

In social psychology, when a bunch of like-minded individuals come together and talk about the same thing with the same attitude, this eventually leads to an increase of that particular sentiment. It's very unhealthy, uncritical, and just enhances whatever that thought was, to a new level. I think the term is also considered a type of "groupthink" if I recall.

I always knew this forum had people who disagrees with the West, but please don't sink to a new low by justifying inhumane actions. Do that more and this forum would be no different than those who bashes China. Similar/same atmosphere, just taking different sides. We are all very familiar with the expression, "Kettle calling the pot black", right?

I start to feel this is not a real thread, but more a thread disguised to demonstrate West-bashing and West-hatred and criticism.

I don't agree with how the West interprets China most of the times myself, but I felt I had grown better than to side with China with everything and think "West = Wrong, therefore China = Right"

airsuperiority said:

I'm not even going to get into the forbidden topic, but I am surprised how some people can actually justify the use of lethal force against innocent civilians.

By definition of innocent, this means not deserving the use of lethal force as they do not pose as justifiable threat that warrants this treatment.

And for the same reason this is why so much spotlight was put on that particular place that night. You all should recall that the West was still quite warm with Beijing right up until before this event occurred, so there's no true purpose to fabricate.

Furthermore, there were also footage shown of armors running through the square that night, so how the event could even be disputed as justified or proposed as all a hoax is just totally beyond acceptable.

There's a patch of grass where you're permitted to stand on and disagree with the West's lack of understanding and interpretation of China, but it's by no means acceptable to start dragging into other issues and smearing those too with your disagreement. That's just applying a sentiment of your dissatisfaction and tying irrelevant issues into place, a very fallible and irrational behavior.

In social psychology, when a bunch of like-minded individuals come together and talk about the same thing with the same attitude, this eventually leads to an increase of that particular sentiment. It's very unhealthy, uncritical, and just enhances whatever that thought was, to a new level. I think the term is also considered a type of "groupthink" if I recall.

I always knew this forum had people who disagrees with the West, but please don't sink to a new low by justifying inhumane actions. Do that more and this forum would be no different than those who bashes China. Similar/same atmosphere, just taking different sides. We are all very familiar with the expression, "Kettle calling the pot black", right?

I start to feel this is not a real thread, but more a thread disguised to demonstrate West-bashing and West-hatred and criticism.

I don't agree with how the West interprets China most of the times myself, but I felt I had grown better than to side with China with everything and think "West = Wrong, therefore China = Right"

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Thanks for catching that I removed that thing. I didn't want the quote to look like I messed with it.(just trying to be transparent and honest)

I myself am not trying to bash the west, but errors should be pointed out so that they can be addressed just like the ones in China.

ABC78 said:

Thanks for catching that I removed that thing. I didn't want the quote to look like I messed with it.(just trying to be transparent and honest)

I myself am not trying to bash the west, but errors should be pointed out so that they can be addressed just like the ones in China.

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I agree. I am all for critical yet fair analysis of the situation, as that's the only way to get the truth. This is also why I had to speak out to express my concerns when I feel we're getting back into the old habit.

airsuperiority said:

I'm not even going to get into the forbidden topic, but I am surprised how some people can actually justify the use of lethal force against innocent civilians.

By definition of innocent, this means not deserving the use of lethal force as they do not pose as justifiable threat that warrants this treatment.

And for the same reason this is why so much spotlight was put on that particular place that night. You all should recall that the West was still quite warm with Beijing right up until before this event occurred, so there's no true purpose to fabricate.

Furthermore, there were also footage shown of armors running through the square that night, so how the event could even be disputed as justified or proposed as all a hoax is just totally beyond acceptable.

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Pierre Elliot Trudeau sent tanks into the streets of Quebec. Does that mean there was a massacre?

Western media did not begin covering the protests on the eve of the incident. In the weeks leading up to the incident, the students in the square were being supplied by western nations. Western media had already constructed a narrative of democratic revolution from those protests, so what do you think their response would be upon the dispersion of the protests?

Wikileaks has already proven beyond doubt that there was no massacre in the square. As for the use of lethal force in the rest of the city, we are now talking about a riot situation where the security forces did not have adequate crowd-control capabilities.