What the Heck?! Thread (Closed)

[AssassinsMace]

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Let's see... They blamed China for the Rwandan massacre for selling machetes around the world, which is a common worldwide tool people use. They blamed China for the 2008 Western financial crisis because China bought US treasuries which made interest rates low thus greedy bankers irresponsibly gave loans to people who couldn't afford it. They blamed China for the rise of ISIS because China didn't send troops to the Middle East to fight their wars for them. Now they're blaming China for the European refugee crisis because of something as innocuous as an inflatable raft? Evil irresponsible China doesn't think about the consequences of selling rubber boats. And they need to point out bad Chinese quality for people dying. Well maybe they should read the instructions to find out the capacity. Oh no they're trying to escape with their lives from the chaos born from the Western policy of regime change no matter what, so they wouldn't bother...

 

[SteelBird]

Here is another incident of passengers being booted from aircraft after they have board it. I can see some policewoman standing beside the passenger, fortunately there's no violence.

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[bd popeye]

Gents.. I had to put on my OLD MOD clothes to edit this thread. If you want to discuss Martial arts and how to maim people please find another forum to do so. Don't do it here. I'm sure they are plenty martial arts forums around.

And yes I know this is a military forum but we don't allow photos of disfigured or dead people do we?

 

[manqiangrexue]

Just want to point out that although the philosophy of MMA is "use anything that works, discard everything that doesn't", in practice, it has calcified into its own set of rules and limitations.

For example, the emphasis on "ground game" comes from the assumption that fights will always be one-on-one (and on a soft, shock-absorbing floor). In Sanda, fights are interrupted after a throwdown and points are awarded. Sanshou being based on Chinese TMA, most Chinese TMA do not train for "ground fighting", because in a life-or-death situation, you don't want to be rolling around on the ground. MMA's "ground fighting" comes from wrestling, which I should point out, has always been a sport.

Another example is the "take down". We often see the MMA fighter charge head first toward the TMA practitioner. However, what if the TMA practitioner had a knife? That would change the calculus completely, and the MMA fighter would likely not attempt that move, but what if knife was hidden? That tackle puts the MMA fighter into knife range while leaving the opponent's arms free. It would be a suicidal risk in any situation except one where you can be sure that your life is not in danger. Hardly a good example of "practical combat application".

So I got 3 points from this:

1. the real best self defense is a nut shot and run (which is not always true. That's usually a well-defended area and if you miss, you will make him very angry and not hurt. If you studied Muay Thai for long enough, you could kick someone's leg and break it; no need to go for groin), 2. MMA may be impractical because you may have more than 1 attacker, which would disable your ground game (valid, but you should know that before making the decision to go to the ground or not), and 3. MMA take-down is impractical because the other guy might be hiding a knife??

Man, you're really stretching here. I love Chinese culture, but the best culture is one that adapts and incorporates the new to improve oneself every day. Clinging to outdated traditions will only hurt oneself and because of that, I cannot defend China's old martial arts as effective forms of combat. Chinese TMA is the laughing stock of the martial arts world because of how impractical they are in honorable 1-vs-1 hand-to-hand combat. Making small excuses for them and attacking MMA won't change that; it won't stop the embarrassment coming from Chinese TMA "masters" being destroyed by foreign fighters (especially Thais). We only improve by admitting our weaknesses and learning from the best in the world. And that is where MMA comes from. It comes from the world, and it incorporates Chinese Sanshou too. It's not a Western style to defeat Chinese styles. It's a culmination the the strengths of all the martial arts forms in existance. As a martial artist, only a fool would attempt to downplay MMA and cling desperately to traditional forms. I don't want to see this foolish trend dominate China willing it with paper warriors. I want China to be home to the strongest and most feared fighters on earth and so we must accept that MMA is the now and future of fighting and TMA is for exercise and entertainment.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Gents.. I had to put on my OLD MOD clothes to edit this thread. If you want to discuss Martial arts and how to maim people please find another forum to do so. Don't do it here. I'm sure they are plenty martial arts forums around.

And yes I know this is a military forum but we don't allow photos of disfigured or dead people do we?

But this is the What the Heck thread, right? And MMA fighter challenging traditional martial artists sounds... what the heck, right? We talk about politics, economics, sports, culture, biology, people getting dragged off United Airlines, etc... what is taboo about martial arts?

 

[solarz]

So I got 3 points from this:

1. the real best self defense is a nut shot and run (which is not always true. That's usually a well-defended area and if you miss, you will make him very angry and not hurt. If you studied Muay Thai for long enough, you could kick someone's leg and break it; no need to go for groin), 2. MMA may be impractical because you may have more than 1 attacker, which would disable your ground game (valid, but you should know that before making the decision to go to the ground or not), and 3. MMA take-down is impractical because the other guy might be hiding a knife??

Man, you're really stretching here. I love Chinese culture, but the best culture is one that adapts and incorporates the new to improve oneself every day. Clinging to outdated traditions will only hurt oneself and because of that, I cannot defend China's old martial arts as effective forms of combat. Chinese TMA is the laughing stock of the martial arts world because of how impractical they are in honorable 1-vs-1 hand-to-hand combat. Making small excuses for them and attacking MMA won't change that; it won't stop the embarrassment coming from Chinese TMA "masters" being destroyed by foreign fighters (especially Thais). We only improve by admitting our weaknesses and learning from the best in the world. And that is where MMA comes from. It comes from the world, and it incorporates Chinese Sanshou too. It's not a Western style to defeat Chinese styles. It's a culmination the the strengths of all the martial arts forms in existance. As a martial artist, only a fool would attempt to downplay MMA and cling desperately to traditional forms. I don't want to see this foolish trend dominate China willing it with paper warriors. I want China to be home to the strongest and most feared fighters on earth and so we must accept that MMA is the now and future of fighting and TMA is for exercise and entertainment.

Not stretching, just pointing out that MMA is not the "end all, be all" of martial arts. In fact, it is not even inherent superior, it is just more popularly promoted.

If you look at Yi Long, who definitely has a TMA background, you can see that with proper training and athletic conditioning, a TMA practitioner can very well be a contender in sports combat.

MMA is not the only alternative to traditional forms, that's a false dichotomy. Being a popular combat discipline right now, it's only natural that all serious fighters would study and learn from it, but that doesn't mean it's the "now and future of fighting".

I remember about 20 years ago, when MMA was just starting, Royce Gracie and his Brazilian Jiujitsu was hailed as the "best style evar!". For a long time, wrestling was "widely known" as superior to striking. Then as more MMA fighters started training in wrestling and BJJ, they learned how their strengths and weaknesses, and how to counter. These days, we routinely have strikers defeating wrestlers, and this evolution happend only in the MMA circuit over a short 2 decades!

In the end though, all combat disciplines nowadays happen under the auspices of specific rules and limitations. That means they are all more sport than martial art in the old, pre-firearm, sense. Should a gymnast feel shame at not being able to run as fast as a sprinter? Or jump as far as a long jumper?

Of course, if that gymnast was self-deluded enough into thinking he can beat a sprinter in a race, then yes, he should be ashamed.

 

[solarz]

Martial Arts are like weapons: they are designed for use in specific circumstances. Even in the olden days, not all martial arts are equally effective in all areas.

Put a Shaolin monk in medieval Europe, and he'd just be a regular peasant, none of his martial skills would amount to much against an armored knight.

Put that armored knight in ancient China, and he'd be under arrest in the first town he enters for illegally carrying weapons and armor. If he tried to resist, his fancy armor would be as effective as paper against a dozen crossbow bolts fired at point-blank range.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Not stretching, just pointing out that MMA is not the "end all, be all" of martial arts. In fact, it is not even inherent superior, it is just more popularly promoted.

If you look at Yi Long, who definitely has a TMA background, you can see that with proper training and athletic conditioning, a TMA practitioner can very well be a contender in sports combat.

MMA is not the only alternative to traditional forms, that's a false dichotomy. Being a popular combat discipline right now, it's only natural that all serious fighters would study and learn from it, but that doesn't mean it's the "now and future of fighting".

I remember about 20 years ago, when MMA was just starting, Royce Gracie and his Brazilian Jiujitsu was hailed as the "best style evar!". For a long time, wrestling was "widely known" as superior to striking. Then as more MMA fighters started training in wrestling and BJJ, they learned how their strengths and weaknesses, and how to counter. These days, we routinely have strikers defeating wrestlers, and this evolution happend only in the MMA circuit over a short 2 decades!

In the end though, all combat disciplines nowadays happen under the auspices of specific rules and limitations. That means they are all more sport than martial art in the old, pre-firearm, sense. Should a gymnast feel shame at not being able to run as fast as a sprinter? Or jump as far as a long jumper?

Of course, if that gymnast was self-deluded enough into thinking he can beat a sprinter in a race, then yes, he should be ashamed.

I cannot tell if we're agreeing or not LOL. Yes! Gymnasts and sprinters are different and they do not compete with one another. TMA is different from MMA in that TMA is dancing and MMA is fighting so they should not be compared. Is that what you're saying? I agree.

Ground game and striking will always incite debate about which is better but in truth, they are like your arms and legs. You need both to be a well-rounded person and you need both ground game and striking to be a well-rounded fighter.

Yi Long used TMA as an exercise to condition his body, but fights with MMA. As a matter of fact, Yi Long's greatest weakness is when he attempts to bring TMA techniques into MMA, such as when he tries to intimidate his opponent with "Iron Skull Kung Fu" and ends up getting KO'd by the free head-shots he offers his opponent.

 

[solarz]

I cannot tell if we're agreeing or not LOL. Yes! Gymnasts and sprinters are different and they do not compete with one another. TMA is different from MMA in that TMA is dancing and MMA is fighting so they should not be compared. Is that what you're saying? I agree.

Ground game and striking will always incite debate about which is better but in truth, they are like your arms and legs. You need both to be a well-rounded person and you need both ground game and striking to be a well-rounded fighter.

Yi Long used TMA as an exercise to condition his body, but fights with MMA. As a matter of fact, Yi Long's greatest weakness is when he attempts to bring TMA techniques into MMA, such as when he tries to intimidate his opponent with "Iron Skull Kung Fu" and ends up getting KO'd by the free head-shots he offers his opponent.

I think we just have slightly different perception of things.

LOL, yes, I've seen Yi Long getting KO'd when trying to use his "Iron Skull Kung Fu", but I swear I've also seen videos where it worked and his opponent tired himself out punching Yi Long's head!

That said, watching Yi Long fight, I get the distinct feeling that his kicks are from kung fu, and not, say, Muay Thai. Of course, it could also be from sanda, but sanda kicks are also from kung fu.

I've seen a video where Liu Hailong does this super flashy double jumping roundhouse kick that's definitely from TMA, and nail his opponent. That kind of move is frequently derided by MMA practitioners as "utterly useless".

 

[dingyibvs]

Ground game is clearly inferior in a life and death battle. Exposing your soft spots like the neck and eyes to the opponent is only a good idea when you're playing a sport that prohibits the hitting of those areas and when you're absolutely certain that your apparently unarmed opponent is not hiding some small weapons in the sleeves like needles.