Wars of the future

IDonT · Sep 30, 2005

AssassinsMace said:
You're equating that with trying to take over the world? I didn't make that statement figuratively. IT WAS LITERALLY! The countries of the West are the only ones in the history of the world with a plan and acted to take over the world. Do we see Chinese influence and language in the Americas? Do we see it in Africa? Do we see it in Europe? Do we see it in the Middle East? Do we see it in India? Do we see it in Austrailia? You can only say the Far East and that ain't the world! And in many cases, it wasn't out force but of a diaspora.

The fact is if China wanted to take over the world it was very capable of doing yet it didn't! Unlike the West, China never had a religion that said the people who embrace this religion own the world and it's their duty to convert the world under its dominion.

Do you see in China's museums displaying its plunder of artifacts around the world like we see in Western museums? Do we see genetic mongoloid features in people around the world because of mass rape like what was practice by the West when they raped the entrie world... literally and figuratively? Do you see Chinese historical involvement in the global international slave trade of any kind selling other races into slavery all around the world? The only slaves in China were Chinese slaves and we know you don't care about them! Do we see China creating the first global drug cartel like the West did with opium? But unlike today's drug cartels that do it for money, the West's number one purpose in producing opium was to use it to destroy people so that their countries would be easier to take over. The answer is no to all of the above but the West certainly did those unique and notoriously horrid crimes upon humanity!

China never imposed a fine for every word of non-Chinese spoken on natives of other countries on their own land unlike the West. Out of the 156 years of British occupation of Hong Kong only the last 6 has any measure of democracy. And that only came because China was about take back Hong Kong under treaty. And it wasn't even a true democracy. The people of Hong Kong could never elect their own leader. That was decided in Great Britain where no Chinese of Hong Kong had representation. The governor chosen was always white and always male. The British use to imprison Chinese children that protested that the truth be taught in schools about how the British aquired Hong Kong because of the opium trade and colonial conquest and not the lie they were teaching in Hong Kong at the time. Interesting that the West cries for democracy in Hong Kong today yet didn't utter one complaint when the British imposed a dictatorship throughout their occupation. Same system yet somehow it's only bad when China is in control.

The West cries for a million Tibetans dead in 50 years, but in 1965 the US pressured the Indonesian government to "deal with its communist problem." So what did the Indonesians do? Since communism in that part of the world was more influence by China, the Indonesians decided to kill everyone Chinese even though the vast majority of them have had generations living there before communism ever started in Russia. Over 1 miilion dead in less than a month. I bet you don't cry for them!

Apparently, China is horrible when it comes to practicing genocide compared to the West. 75 million Native Americans... 200 million African slaves through the Middle Passage... And you think China is bad? Is this the Western mentality when the two same crimes are committed.. one by a white and the other by a black, the black is more likely to be convicted and sent to prison? But apparently in this case the lesser offender is more of a criminal in your eyes.

Who's bombings countries left and right based on lies? Not China. Look at how you turn a blind eye when the US invades Iraq to steal its oil. What hypocrisy! No wonder the world hates you because you are in complete denial of what your side committed onto the world.

Oh please. You are confusing motive with capability.
Just because China were not capable of western style emperialism (in the 18th) does not mean they did not want to.

Do you remember the tributary system under, where a state was required to pay China a fixed amount per year?
Korea, Annam, Burma had to pay a yearly tribute
Thailand once every 3 years.

I'm trying to justify the West's actions, but to say that China was innocent is just delusional.

Look at the Map of China at the end of the Ming Dynasty and compare it to today. You can see it has doubled and those lands are populated by HAN chinese majority now. What happened to the original peoples that lived there, they were annihilated.

If you want to see mongoloid features, look at central asia (the steppes), China's traditional route for conquest.

IDonT · Sep 30, 2005

Map of Ming China 1644

Map of Qing China 1896

AssassinsMace · Sep 30, 2005

IDonT said:
Oh please. You are confusing motive with capability.
Just because China were not capable of western style emperialism (in the 18th) does not mean they did not want to.

Do you remember the tributary system under, where a state was required to pay China a fixed amount per year?
Korea, Annam, Burma had to pay a yearly tribute
Thailand once every 3 years.

I'm trying to justify the West's actions, but to say that China was innocent is just delusional.

Look at the Map of China at the end of the Ming Dynasty and compare it to today. You can see it has doubled and those lands are populated by HAN chinese majority now. What happened to the original peoples that lived there, they were annihilated.

If you want to see mongoloid features, look at central asia (the steppes), China's traditional route for conquest.

Those maps still don't show the world.

Apparently you weren't capable since the world isn't under your control. The Chinese were very capable since they were the only world's superpower 2000 years before the rise of Europe. Marco Polo wrote that if the Chinese wanted to take over the world, they could've done it with ease. Key word... "wanted." Look at how you try to salvage the crimes of the West as a show of strength. You had the motive but failed miserably. Next you'll say you stopped out of concern for your fellow human beings. More like the rise of communism stopped you. Notice only during the Cold War, you started to be concern with human rights when the communists were pointing how much of a criminal against humanity you are. Total up the crimes committed by the West around the globe and that equals the worst criminal in history.

The Ming were Mongolians not Chinese. Learn your history.

Never said China was innocent! I said you were far worse.

Delusion is the worst criminals against humanity and nature that history will ever know pointing the finger at China. Notice you didn't address all those Western crimes I pointed out? Can't stand the truth, huh?

IDonT · Sep 30, 2005

AssassinsMace said:
Those maps still don't show the world.

Apparently you weren't capable since the world isn't under your control. The Chinese were very capable since they were the only world's superpower 2000 years before the rise of Europe. Marco Polo wrote that if the Chinese wanted to take over the world, they could've done it with ease. Key word... "wanted." Look at how you try to salvage the crimes of the West as a show of strength. You had the motive but failed miserably. Next you'll say you stopped out of concern for your fellow human beings. More like the rise of communism stopped you. Notice only during the Cold War, you started to be concern with human rights when the communists were pointing how much of a criminal against humanity you are. Total up the crimes committed by the West around the globe and that equals the worst criminal in history.

The Ming were Mongolians not Chinese. Learn your history.

Never said China was innocent! I said you were far worse.

Delusion is the worst criminals against humanity and nature that history will ever know pointing the finger at China. Notice you didn't address all those Western crimes I pointed out? Can't stand the truth, huh?

Far worst? China is just like the West. It 5,000 years of history has proved that. There are periods of barbarism followed by enlightenment. The west does too.

China could not take over the world, like the Europe did when it was at its height. It's techology, though the best of the world at that time, could never have conquered such vast territories. It was not advance enough to have industrial levels of output.

What was within China's power, was it immidiate region. Central Asia has seen far too many Chinese invasions, so has Vietnam, Tibet, and Korea. I hope you are familiar with the kow tow tradition, where visiting delegates have to prostrate themselves infront of the yellow emperor to acknowledge China's superiority and rule of their land.

Here is what Chinese belief of the heirarchy of things.
1.) Heaven
2.) Son of Heaven (emperor)
The Emperor is the ruler of the world and the other kings are his subordinate and they acknowledge this by bringing tribute.

Not emperialism in fact, but in theory.

So please spare me your "holier than thou" argument.

Ming Dynasty was chinese. It overthrew the Yuan Dynasty, which was mongolian. You are the one who needs to learn their history.

And as for the crimes the West have commited in its emperialism, I have one respond....GUILTY AS CHARGE, like China.

AssassinsMace · Sep 30, 2005

IDonT said:
Far worst? China is just like the West. It 5,000 years of history has proved that. There are periods of barbarism followed by enlightenment. The west does too.

China could not take over the world, like the Europe did when it was at its height. It's techology, though the best of the world at that time, could never have conquered such vast territories. It was not advance enough to have industrial levels of output.

What was within China's power, was it immidiate region. Central Asia has seen far too many Chinese invasions, so has Vietnam, Tibet, and Korea. I hope you are familiar with the kow tow tradition, where visiting delegates have to prostrate themselves infront of the yellow emperor to acknowledge China's superiority and rule of their land.

Here is what Chinese belief of the heirarchy of things.
1.) Heaven
2.) Son of Heaven (emperor)
The Emperor is the ruler of the world and the other kings are his subordinate and they acknowledge this by bringing tribute.

Not emperialism in fact, but in theory.

So please spare me your "holier than thou" argument.

Ming Dynasty was chinese. It overthrew the Yuan Dynasty, which was mongolian. You are the one who needs to learn their history.

And as for the crimes the West have commited in its emperialism, I have one respond....GUILTY AS CHARGE, like China.

Rewriting history again? Just like Westerners have always done to hide their crimes against humanity.

You talk about motive versus capability? What hypocrisy! How about action speaks louder than words?

I can point to every culture on the planet who believed they were the center of the world. Westerners are the only ones to act on their belief.

You can go to any place in the world and see the legacy of oppression by the West. You can't say that for China. China has never claimed it owns the world like Christians do. China only thought it was the center of the world not own it like Westerners think to this very day. Big difference!

Did you know that the UN conducted a study on the illegal global child sex industry? It found that the majority of child molesters that travel the world in order to exploit poor people and molest their children are from 1) the US, 2) Great Britain, and 3) Germany. They alone make over 75% of the child molesters found in countries where illegal child sex tours operate.

Did you know that over 90% of the world's serial murderers live in the US? And 90% of them are of European ethnicity.

Did you know American men rape and kill more women and children overseas than any other group? It's said that if you get a map of Japan and South Korea and stick a pin where ever a rape and/or murder occurs, the pins clutter around American military bases. And this is how you treat your allies!

The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) shows America's plan to take over the world. It's a document written by the crones of the Bush administration before he became President. In the document it states that the US needs a "Pearl Harbor" type event, i.e. 9/11, inflicted upon the US in order to hide American plans to take over the world. And it starts off with an invasion of Iraq and ends with attacking China. It's the whole European colonialism all over again. And again you are the only ones that act on your beliefs. History shows you to always be the aggressor. But too bad you'll fail again but this time the world has the ability to strike back! Good thing the Iraqis are creaming your butts right now. It'll make you think twice before you wage your campaign of hate and racial supremacy upon the world again.

Not only are you the greatest criminals in history, you continue to be one for the forseeable future. LOL!!!!!!

IDonT · Sep 30, 2005

AssassinsMace said:
Rewriting history again? Just like Westerners have always done to hide their crimes against humanity.

You talk about motive versus capability? What hypocrisy! How about action speaks louder than words?

I can point to every culture on the planet who believed they were the center of the world. Westerners are the only ones to act on their belief.

You can go to any place in the world and see the legacy of oppression by the West. You can't say that for China. China has never claimed it owns the world like Christians do. China only thought it was the center of the world not own it like Westerners think to this very day. Big difference!

Did you know that the UN conducted a study on the illegal global child sex industry? It found that the majority of child molesters that travel the world in order to exploit poor people and molest their children are from 1) the US, 2) Great Britain, and 3) Germany. They alone make over 75% of the child molesters found in countries where illegal child sex tours operate.

Did you know that over 90% of the world's serial murderers live in the US? And 90% of them are of European ethnicity.

Did you know American men rape and kill more women and children overseas than any other group? It's said that if you get a map of Japan and South Korea and stick a pin where ever a rape and/or murder occurs, the pins clutter around American military bases. And this is how you treat your allies!

The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) shows America's plan to take over the world. It's a document written by the crones of the Bush administration before he became President. In the document it states that the US needs a "Pearl Harbor" type event, i.e. 9/11, inflicted upon the US in order to hide American plans to take over the world. And it starts off with an invasion of Iraq and ends with attacking China. It's the whole European colonialism all over again. And again you are the only ones that act on your beliefs. History shows you to always be the aggressor. But too bad you'll fail again but this time the world has the ability to strike back! Good thing the Iraqis are creaming your butts right now. It'll make you think twice before you wage your campaign of hate and racial supremacy upon the world again.

Not only are you the greatest criminals in history, you continue to be one for the forseeable future. LOL!!!!!!

What has that got to do with what we are talking about?
ACtion speak louder than words. Last time I check, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Burma were paying tribute to the mighty son of heaven, ruler of the world.
China still destroyed the Xiongnu, Turks, Uighars, and other stepped nations.

I am not the one re writing history. Ming Dynasty was CHinese

Please don't give me that bullshit. European countries and the US (there is a difference) track more offenders than the rest of the world. DOn't tell me CHina has no serial killers, rapist, etc. They just don't track it that much

Don't get me started on child molesters. At least the west do not marry 12 year olds to 40 year olds.

For a CHinese you are very short sighted.
History shows you to always be the aggressor
Do you know that the US history pails in comparison to China? When China was 220 years old since Qin Dynasty, do you know how many atrocities it has commited?

PiSigma · Sep 30, 2005

xiongnu invaded china first, china was defending herself. and only when xiongnu was defeated in battle did they leave the stepps. because the whole reason they attacked china was for better pasture, and since their own land sucks, they got to leave.

both sides got some good points. china was part of the great game as much as the europeans nations, it's just we dropped out earlier than them. and instead in africa, we were in central asia. the qing map shown earlier is actually smaller than qing's terroritory at it's height. at its height, qing extends a lot further into central asia, controls most of present day burma, northern vietnam, and huge amounts of land of russian far east.

europe on the other land don't have much land unlike china, so they are forced to expand, and this need to constantly expand to survive is what developed the "need to conquer" mentally. and the religion factor, christianity is not a very forgiving or understanding religion. it does not tolerate other religions or cultures. so much of western conquest reflects this, which caused most of the problems of imperialism.

the bottom line is imperialism is not right, and should be stopped. the neo-imperialism practiced by USA right now is basically the same as the ones in 1800s.

btw, henry jones, what's your education background?? where you from?? i find your posts very unique. i would like to know where your opinions come from. because from your posts, you always mention nanoweapons. i don't know what is your field of study, but i'm a chemical engineer, and in my university, we have one of the best nano-technology research facilities in the world (UofA), we are getting a new national nano-tech research center. a lot of my friends study engineering physics, so i know some things about nano, and there's not much research into weapons yet in nano.

AssassinsMace · Oct 1, 2005

IDonT said:
What has that got to do with what we are talking about?
ACtion speak louder than words. Last time I check, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Burma were paying tribute to the mighty son of heaven, ruler of the world.
China still destroyed the Xiongnu, Turks, Uighars, and other stepped nations.

I am not the one re writing history. Ming Dynasty was CHinese

Please don't give me that bullshit. European countries and the US (there is a difference) track more offenders than the rest of the world. DOn't tell me CHina has no serial killers, rapist, etc. They just don't track it that much

Don't get me started on child molesters. At least the west do not marry 12 year olds to 40 year olds.

For a CHinese you are very short sighted.
History shows you to always be the aggressor
Do you know that the US history pails in comparison to China? When China was 220 years old since Qin Dynasty, do you know how many atrocities it has commited?

Still rewriting history. You still haven't shown me how China tried to take over the world when your maps only show the Far East. Also the Qing were Manchus not Chinese. Got another wrong like all your points.

What criminals did Westerners go after? Certainly not the dictators the West supported throughout your colonial and Cold War history. Dictators that did all the killing for you on top of your crimes.

Never said China didn't have criminals. Here you go again rewriting history. I said 90% of serial murderers are from the US. Learn to read!

Never saw a twelve year old marrying a 40 year old unless you're talking about the past royal class. But then European royalty are notorious for in-breeding and child sexual perversion. Shall we talk Rome also? Shall I point to Mormons who do those very things. You can make up all the stories you want but official figures show Westerners are the most prolific child molesters in the world.

You just keep drowning in your own hypocrisy. You keep pointing the finger and three are always pointing back at you. LOL!!!!

For a Westerner, you're sure are blind to your own crimes. Oops, sorry! All Westerners are blind. That's why you arrogantly judge the world with your hypocrisy. That's why everyone in the world sees you as the greatest threat to world peace today.

What does it say compared to China's 5000 year long history, the West's 400 year rape, pillage, and plunder of humanity in the name of white supremacy and domination of the world wins you the title of greatest criminals against humanity and nature that history will ever know? It says a lot. Look at this way... At least there's one thing no one will question your superiority above everyone else. LOL!!!!!

Kingpin · Oct 1, 2005

AssasinMace said:
Still rewriting history. You still haven't shown me how China tried to take over the world when your maps only show the Far East. Also the Qing were Manchus not Chinese. Got another wrong like all your points.

What criminals did Westerners go after? Certainly not the dictators the West supported throughout your colonial and Cold War history. Dictators that did all the killing for you on top of your crimes.

Never said China didn't have criminals. Here you go again rewriting history. I said 90% of serial murderers are from the US. Learn to read!

Never saw a twelve year old marrying a 40 year old unless you're talking about the past royal class. But then European royalty are notorious for in-breeding and child sexual perversion. Shall we talk Rome also? Shall I point to Mormons who do those very things. You can make up all the stories you want but official figures show Westerners are the most prolific child molesters in the world.

You just keep drowning in your own hypocrisy. You keep pointing the finger and three are always pointing back at you. LOL!!!!

For a Westerner, you're sure are blind to your own crimes. Oops, sorry! All Westerners are blind. That's why you arrogantly judge the world with your hypocrisy. That's why everyone in the world sees you as the greatest threat to world peace today.

What does it say compared to China's 5000 year long history, the West's 400 year rape, pillage, and plunder of humanity in the name of white supremacy and domination of the world wins you the title of greatest criminals against humanity and nature that history will ever know? It says a lot. Look at this way... At least there's one thing no one will question your superiority above everyone else. LOL!!!!!

It irks me to see that most of the Chinese here are in the West, being educated in the West, being fed in the West, being able to enjoy the freedom provided in the West, can constantly bashing the Western Government because of the freedom of speech, not like their own "proud" country the PRC. What's more than sad that most of the "US bashers" Chinese here seems to live in the United States, enjoying the life that the US provides them, but still they like to bite.

Typical Mainland Chinese, always biting the hands that feeds you. But still the US/West accepted you. Ironic isn't it?

Also the "white-supremacist" thing is getting old.

PiSigma said:
europe on the other land don't have much land unlike china, so they are forced to expand, and this need to constantly expand to survive is what developed the "need to conquer" mentally. and the religion factor, christianity is not a very forgiving or understanding religion. it does not tolerate other religions or cultures. so much of western conquest reflects this, which caused most of the problems of imperialism.

every religion had their own dark history, the history of Christianity in China shows that when the Nestorians first arrived in the Tang dynasty, they were persecuted by the Buddhist establishment. Later, when the Jesuits arrived in the late Ming and early Qing, they were again persecuted by the Buddhists (the Confucians were relatively OK with them). And the Jesuits were not intolerant - in fact, they were tolerant to a fault, even endorsing the Confucian teachings and condoning the practice of ancestral sacrifices. That is partly why quite a number of Chinese scholars converted. The Jesuit failure was due to a clash with the Franciscans (who wanted a stricter line on the ancestral rites), and the decision of the Pope to side with the latter and prohibit ancestral worship by Chinese Christians - a decision which offended the Qing Kangxi emperor.

Also, this historical example shows how it is impossible to generalize about Christianity, since there are different positions and groups even within Catholic Christianity, some more 'tolerant' than others.

Btw nice argument IDont

Schumacher · Oct 1, 2005

I live neither in China nor US.

Anyway, what's wrong with criticizing the US while being there at the same time ? If the US doesn't like these Chinese or other nationals being in their country, just ask them to leave. The fact is immigration to the US is a two way street, both the US & the immigrants get some of what they want.
China, India & many other countries will be delighted if the US is dumb enough to kick them out. Brain drain to the US is a major problem for many developing countries.

Wars of the future

IDonT

Senior Member

IDonT

Senior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

IDonT

Senior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

IDonT

Senior Member

PiSigma

"the engineer"

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Kingpin

Just Hatched

Schumacher

Senior Member