video leak on YouTube of Chinese trawler incident.

solarz

solarz

Brigadier
bladerunner said:
I think so to, however this link gives a better picture indicating the chinese to be at fault

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Looks more to me like the Japanese deliberated parked their boat in the path of the Chinese trawler, who was unable to stop in time and bumped into it. The impact does not look like a full-speed collision at all.

Further, this video shows a collision completely different from that of the previous video. So were there 2 collisions or what? Or is this 2 different incidents?
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Curious George said:
Watch the video again, you can clearly see the Japanese warship cut in front of the fishing boat in order to try to intimidate it into stopping. The problem is that the Chinese boat held its ground and kept course, barely clipping the Japanese warship. Not satisfied with this outcome, the Japanese warship tried the same "cutting off" maneover again and a collision happened the second time around. You're asking why the fishing boat didn't change course to try to avoid the collision, well why did the warship put itself in that position in the first place? What right did they have trying to bully a Chinese boat in a disputed area? Would they have tried pulling the same stunt on a Chinese warship that was passing through?
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I have to disagree CC.. while I'm no accident recreation expert, you can tell by the wake of the Chinese trawler and you could also see he was gunning his engines right before ramming... all those smoke coming out of the smoke stack. Since the video was taken from the Japanese ship it, the point of reference is difficult to tell because there are no static point to judge the angle of either ships but in my layman opinion I think the Chinese ship deliberately rammed the Japanese ship.

At any rate, the trawler cap has big brass ones because I wouldn't be so ballsy to do what he did. Maybe he wanted to cause an international scene/incident on purpose in which case he succeeded tremendously.
 
X

xywdx

Junior Member
kwaigonegin said:
I'm no accident recreation expert
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All that's right about your post is this part.
Sure he turned on the engine, but he was trying to reverse as was evident in the movement after the collision.
Your layman opinion is completely wrong because he was just trying to get away from the Japanese aggressors.
The Captain just did what any good man would have done when harassed in their own territory.

What happened in that video was the Chinese trawler going at non-threatening speed, when the Japanese tried to park right in front of it.
The fishing trawler tried to turn left and move away, but the Japanese slowed to force the collision.
The trawler captain tried to reverse when he saw the Japanese move but couldn't make it in time.
The result was a light bump between the two vessels.
 
A

airsuperiority

Captain
xywdx said:
All that's right about your post is this part.
Sure he turned on the engine, but he was trying to reverse as was evident in the movement after the collision.
Your layman opinion is completely wrong because he was just trying to get away from the Japanese aggressors.
The Captain just did what any good man would have done when harassed in their own territory.

What happened in that video was the Chinese trawler going at non-threatening speed, when the Japanese tried to park right in front of it.
The fishing trawler tried to turn left and move away, but the Japanese slowed to force the collision.
The trawler captain tried to reverse when he saw the Japanese move but couldn't make it in time.
The result was a light bump between the two vessels.
Click to expand...

agreed
if it's deliberate, you wont get something quite like this minor bump. even 2 men in kayaks can do something like this.

second, all that smoke came AFTER the collision.

3rd, i dont know HOW and WHY would your average joe, a chinese fisherman in his middle age, wanna play a game like that. it's impossible for him to calculate what political turmoil arises out of it, not to mention even PRC's diplomatic channel this time realized they had a situation that was more sophisticated than what they've dealt with before, all in part also because the Japanese were giving a stinking attitude this time without consideration of bilateral relationships.
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Curious George said:
Watch the video again, you can clearly see the Japanese warship cut in front of the fishing boat in order to try to intimidate it into stopping. The problem is that the Chinese boat held its ground and kept course, barely clipping the Japanese warship. Not satisfied with this outcome, the Japanese warship tried the same "cutting off" maneover again and a collision happened the second time around. You're asking why the fishing boat didn't change course to try to avoid the collision, well why did the warship put itself in that position in the first place? What right did they have trying to bully a Chinese boat in a disputed area? Would they have tried pulling the same stunt on a Chinese warship that was passing through?
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I dont think your other scenarios are relevant.Im merely giving an opinion, based on the recognised rules of the sea. The Japanese boat had a job to do and even if it did make an error, and the Chinese Captain was in the right there was no clear sign of him taking avoiding action which would have been expected of him. I think if he had turned starboard he could have had a chance of missing the japanese boat as the collision took place towards the stern of the boat.

By the way I am taking into consideration that the Chinese boat is being harassed and being a little forgiving, however the rules of sea state , that when you have two ships on a intersecting course, the one on the left must give way.
 
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bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
xywdx said:
All that's right about your post is this part.
Sure he turned on the engine, but he was trying to reverse as was evident in the movement after the collision.
Your layman opinion is completely wrong because he was just trying to get away from the Japanese aggressors.
The Captain just did what any good man would have done when harassed in their own territory.

What happened in that video was the Chinese trawler going at non-threatening speed, when the Japanese tried to park right in front of it.
The fishing trawler tried to turn left and move away, but the Japanese slowed to force the collision.
The trawler captain tried to reverse when he saw the Japanese move but couldn't make it in time.
The result was a light bump between the two vessels.
Click to expand...

It looked like the impact was very close to the stern of the ship, in which case a turn to starboard would have been more appropriate. Going around the stern of the ship on your right is usually the standard procedure for two intersecting ships. Trying to turn away by presenting your stern to the other boat while a legitimate option wasn't feasible on this occassion IMO.
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
solarz said:
Looks more to me like the Japanese deliberated parked their boat in the path of the Chinese trawler, who was unable to stop in time and bumped into it. The impact does not look like a full-speed collision at all.

Further, this video shows a collision completely different from that of the previous video. So were there 2 collisions or what? Or is this 2 different incidents?
Click to expand...

NO its the same incident, the one you are talking about happened first.
 
X

xywdx

Junior Member
bladerunner said:
It looked like the impact was very close to the stern of the ship, in which case a turn to starboard would have been more appropriate. Going around the stern of the ship on your right is usually the standard procedure for two intersecting ships. Trying to turn away by presenting your stern to the other boat while a legitimate option wasn't feasible on this occassion IMO.
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The trawler crew claims they have been doing the "appropriate" maneuvers for hours, and from that I saw in the video I am strongly inclined to believe them.

I pity the trawler captain and his crew who were victim to immense stress for such a long period of time, they finally decided to take a chance and pray the Japanese would leave them alone, unfortunately the Japanese hadn't had enough fun.
 
kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
xywdx said:
All that's right about your post is this part.
Sure he turned on the engine, but he was trying to reverse as was evident in the movement after the collision.
Your layman opinion is completely wrong because he was just trying to get away from the Japanese aggressors.
The Captain just did what any good man would have done when harassed in their own territory.

What happened in that video was the Chinese trawler going at non-threatening speed, when the Japanese tried to park right in front of it.
The fishing trawler tried to turn left and move away, but the Japanese slowed to force the collision.
The trawler captain tried to reverse when he saw the Japanese move but couldn't make it in time.
The result was a light bump between the two vessels.
Click to expand...

really? were you on board to make such 100% conclusive assumptions? I sure didn't see any reversing from that video nor any non threating speed.
While I stated my opinions I was careful not to make any definitive ones unlike you. All we have to go with is a 5 minute clip and the fact that there are equally strong opinions on both sides indicate that it really is non conclusive at this point.
It seems like you've already made up your mind regardless and therefore arguing would be a fruitless endevor.
cheers!
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Like Bltizo I'm not sure how the first video (post #3) show the Japanese coastguard vessel at fault. The trawler made a sharp port turn, causing the collision - you can see this because the wake.

This was the same scenario in one of the other videos, where the trawler hits a boat on the stern. As bladerunner said, if there had been no intention to do this the captain would have turned to the starboard (the logical and right thing to do per standard practice).

xywdx said:
The trawler crew claims they have been doing the "appropriate" maneuvers for hours, and from that I saw in the video I am strongly inclined to believe them.
Click to expand...

But the videos show that the trawler made two port turns on separate occasions, hitting the same ship or two different ones. Why did it do this if there was no intention to cause a collision?
 
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