USS Guardian has run aground

bd popeye said:

Recent USN photos of the Guardian..

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What was the local time and sea conditions when she grounded? Because it it was day time, from this picture, shouldn't it have been obvious to whoever was on watch on the bridge that they where heading straight for a grounding with that much yellow seabed visible through the water even to the naked eye?!

plawolf said:

What was the local time and sea conditions when she grounded? Because it it was day time, from this picture, shouldn't it have been obvious to whoever was on watch on the bridge that they where heading straight for a grounding with that much yellow seabed visible through the water even to the naked eye?!

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It was at night, very early in the morning.

US NAVY said:

No one was injured when the Avenger-class mine countermeasure ship ran aground around 2:25 a.m. on Jan. 17 while transiting the Sulu Sea after a port visit in Subic Bay.

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They are citing faulty digital navigation charts. And the normal watch had been sent to the galley for some duty. Still, even at night, the breakers should have been readily visible from some distance with the naked eye.

And, someone should have been checking the "digital" charts against standard nav plots. Pretty sad seamanship all around IMHO.

Jeff Head said:

It was at night, very early in the morning.

They are citing faulty digital navigation charts. And the normal watch had been sent to the galley for some duty. Still, even at night, the breakers should have been readily visible from some distance with the naked eye.

And, someone should have been checking the "digital" charts against standard nav plots. Pretty sad seamanship all around IMHO.

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I have to agree, there was dereliction of duty somewhere, both on the ship and at the office providing the digital charts. Hopefully this serves as a lesson for others not to be sloppy or complacent just because some technology is supposed to be doing a person's job. Ultimately the technology is made by other people, who might make mistakes, so it never hurts to be thorough and double check, or be on the lookout.

Jeff Head said:

It was at night, very early in the morning.



They are citing faulty digital navigation charts. And the normal watch had been sent to the galley for some duty. Still, even at night, the breakers should have been readily visible from some distance with the naked eye.

And, someone should have been checking the "digital" charts against standard nav plots. Pretty sad seamanship all around IMHO.

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It would be interesting to find out if the GPS lots were never checked against paper plots, or if it was checked and the manual plotting was faulty also, or was assumed to be faultily done when it threw up a discrepancy against the digital map.

We can all have a go at the over-reliance of the crew on computers and digital maps, but during the course of our lives and work, 99 times out of a 100, if not significantly more, if something someone did manually didn't match up with something done automatically, it is human error that caused the difference rather than a computer error.

Like it or not, humans are far more prone to make mistakes and mess up than computers, and even this case of computer error could probably ultimately be tracked back to some person who made a mistake when drawing up those digital navigation maps.

plawolf said:

We can all have a go at the over-reliance of the crew on computers and digital maps, but during the course of our lives and work, 99 times out of a 100, if not significantly more, if something someone did manually didn't match up with something done automatically, it is human error that caused the difference rather than a computer error.

Like it or not, humans are far more prone to make mistakes and mess up than computers, and even this case of computer error could probably ultimately be tracked back to some person who made a mistake when drawing up those digital navigation maps.

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Just the same, at sea, a watch is always maintained, and regular charts are regularly checked, to make sure. This shows what happens when you fail to keep the level of vigilance necessary.

Wherever the error crept in, the entire idea is to maintain a strong watch and double and triple check your position, by GPS, charts, dead reckoning, etc. at all times to be sure.

The damage has already been done though, it was carelessness on the part of the watchman, what about sonar equipment(if this is fitted to these vessels)?

plawolf said:

It would be interesting to find out if the GPS lots were never checked against paper plots, or if it was checked and the manual plotting was faulty also, or was assumed to be faultily done when it threw up a discrepancy against the digital map.

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Well, the word is that a Greenpeace ship grounded in the area a few years prior to the Guardian grounding. Same issue; the charts were showing that the reef was a few miles away from where it was supposed to be. Wonder if the charts were correct (both digital and paper) in the first place.

SULU SEA (Jan. 27, 2013) U.S. Navy Sailors transfer cargo from the mine countermeasures ship USS Guardian (MCM 5) to rigid-hull inflatable boat as part of ongoing salvage efforts. Guardian ran aground on Tubbataha Reef Jan. 17.

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An odd question: since when do mine countermeasure ships carry "cargo"?

delft said:

An odd question: since when do mine countermeasure ships carry "cargo"?

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I'm sure they meant gear or equipment.

Pointblank said:

Well, the word is that a Greenpeace ship grounded in the area a few years prior to the Guardian grounding. Same issue; the charts were showing that the reef was a few miles away from where it was supposed to be. Wonder if the charts were correct (both digital and paper) in the first place.

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IMO it could be earthquake activities and hurricanes from the area for decades could have possibly move or discharge the reef from it's previous location little bit.