US Navy to move forward with first eight DDX

man overbored

Junior Member
The Zumwalt do not replace any current class. The 60 something Burke's replace the old FFG-7 and the Charles F. Adams class and some of the Spruance class too. The Zumwalts are there for surface bombardment to support the Marines. That is what the 155 mm guns are for. If anything they replace the Iowa class. They are also the prototype of a completely new architecture. These are very advanced electric drive ships with enormous electrical generation capability. Future weapons like railguns and lazers all require far more electrical current than conventionally propelled ships can hope to generate. In a few years when rail guns and lazers are readied for service, these ships will be the first to ship them, other classes simply do not produce enough power for these weapons. This is the next revolution in naval warfare.
Missing in this discussion is how the VLS tubes are arranged along the sides of the vessel. This is called PVLS for perimeter VLS. The Navy took a lesson from Army tank design. Modern tanks place the ammo in a bustle at the back of the turret where a direct hit blows the lid off the bustle and destroys the ammo but protects the crew. With PVLS, the tubes are arranged around the outside of the hull in groups of four with space between the hull and the tube and some innovative composite armor applied to them. The idea is a missile hit will take out four VLS tubes but leave the ship otherwise undamaged. No repeats of the USS Stark or HMS Sheffield. Full scale PVLS assemblies in a Zumwalt style hull section have been live fire tested with live ordinance in the VLS tubes apparently with success. The actual results of course are not for public dissemination. This new PVLS will accomodate larger missiles than the current Mk-41 VLS, so things like certain Army bombardment missile systems could end up going to sea in support of the Marines.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The Zumwalt do not replace any current class. The 60 something Burke's replace the old FFG-7 and the Charles F. Adams class and some of the Spruance class too. The Zumwalts are there for surface bombardment to support the Marines. That is what the 155 mm guns are for. If anything they replace the Iowa class. They are also the prototype of a completely new architecture. These are very advanced electric drive ships with enormous electrical generation capability. Future weapons like railguns and lazers all require far more electrical current than conventionally propelled ships can hope to generate. In a few years when rail guns and lazers are readied for service, these ships will be the first to ship them, other classes simply do not produce enough power for these weapons. This is the next revolution in naval warfare.
Great comments man overboard...and spot on.

Missing in this discussion is how the VLS tubes are arranged along the sides of the vessel. This is called PVLS for perimeter VLS.
Actually, I did discuss PVLS in my post number five on this thread. There is a pic there that explains iit pretty well too in that post.

The Navy took a lesson from Army tank design. Modern tanks place the ammo in a bustle at the back of the turret where a direct hit blows the lid off the bustle and destroys the ammo but protects the crew. With PVLS, the tubes are arranged around the outside of the hull in groups of four with space between the hull and the tube and some innovative composite armor applied to them. The idea is a missile hit will take out four VLS tubes but leave the ship otherwise undamaged. No repeats of the USS Stark or HMS Sheffield. Full scale PVLS assemblies in a Zumwalt style hull section have been live fire tested with live ordinance in the VLS tubes apparently with success. The actual results of course are not for public dissemination. This new PVLS will accomodate larger missiles than the current Mk-41 VLS, so things like certain Army bombardment missile systems could end up going to sea in support of the Marines.
Again, very good comments. Thanks a lot for the input and welcome to SD.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
I personally would prefer a 203mm (maybe even a 240mm)gun instead of the 155mm one on the DDX. After all, larger rounds usually provide for better mission flexibility, to say nothing of the range boost.

Though I admit that the requirements don't really call for such a large caliber.
 

Scratch

Captain
I think that decision partly has to do with attaching the turrets to the hull. The recoil of fast firing big guns is pretty stressing for the material and requires a heavy mount. Wich in turn may become a problem regarding top-heavyness.
One Pzh2000 155mm turret was test-fitted on a SACHSEN-class FFG (MONARC) but was considered too big, wich is why the new F125 FFGs will only have a 127mm/5" gun.
As I can recall, engineers faced a similar problem when trying to fit bigger than 155mm guns to the Zumwalts.
 

man overbored

Junior Member
Anyone remember the Mk-71 Major Caliber Light Weight Gun System? :) I'm sorry, I just cannot help smiling. It's genesis goes back to WWII. The last three heavy cruisers the US or anyone else ever built, the Des Moines class, had fully automatic eight inch guns. Each barrel could be fired at ten rounds per minute. The class carried three triple turrets like previous US heavy cruiser classes, but the automation made the turrets fully fifty percent heavier than previous versions. These guns required semi-fixed ammo rather than the separate shell and individual silk bags of gun powder that were manually lifted into previous cruiser guns. In use this new gun proved supremely reliable. In Vietnam service only the New Jersey was considered a superior fire support ship.
The USN investigated mounting a single eight inch gun is what looked like a jumbo version of the current 127mm ( 5 inch ) Mk-45 mount. This experimental turret was mounted on USS Hull for a two year test. The gun worked fabulously but the poor USS Hull displaced only 4600 tons and that gun was tearing the ship up.
The plan was to mount them on the forward gun position of the Spruance class, and a Spruance was heavy enough to withstand the recoil. But the program was never funded after the successful test program. Knowing the Navy as I do, that gun is floating around somewhere still. I agree that we would have been better off mounting that on the Zumwalt ( and I ain't alone ) but the new gospel of "jointness" meant the USN has to use a caliber of ammo shared with the Army. Sigh.

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Scroll down a ways to see several photos of the Hull with that mondo gun turret.

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I just cannot stop grinning when I re-read this stuff! By the way, both of these web sites are one stop shopping for good USN technical detail, especially the second site navweaps.com.
 

Scratch

Captain
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DDG 1000 Destroyer Program Facing Major Cuts

Indications are growing that the U.S. Navy is poised to forgo further construction of the advanced but very expensive DDG 1000 Zumwalt-class destroyers and end the program at two ships. ...

With only two or three ships, this class might then foremost be a tech demonstrator or something similar for a CG(X), wich the navy seems to be more eager to get.
That would also mean still more Burkes being built, or perhaps something evolving from them.
 
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