US Navy DDG 1000 Zumwalt Class

Brumby

Major
It is my understanding that the new SPY-3 MFR for the Zumwalt class will be AEGIS compatible, but its underlying architecture is the Total Ship Computing Environment (TSCE) Infrastructure. So through CEC it will play with AEGIS directly, though it itself is not AEGIS.
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The way I understand your description of AEGIS compatibility of the Zumwalt is the essential component of CEC as an intermediary bridge. For example, in a Burke/Zumwalt task force, a SM-6 could be launched from a Zumwalt but cooperatively tracked and targeted via the Aegis onboard the Burke. Would this description be consistent with your comments?

What was the reason that the Zumwalt went with TSCE as an infrastructure? There must be something in it that the Aegis system wasn't providing.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The way I understand your description of AEGIS compatibility of the Zumwalt is the essential component of CEC as an intermediary bridge. For example, in a Burke/Zumwalt task force, a SM-6 could be launched from a Zumwalt but cooperatively tracked and targeted via the Aegis onboard the Burke. Would this description be consistent with your comments?
Cooperative engagement will allow vessels to cooperate and use systems to link various vessels together into a single network and then share data as a whole.

This will allows target detected by one ship (or where it has been implemented, for targets detected by aircraft like the E-2D or the F-35C), to be identified by other ships in the network and fired upon with long-range missiles without that other vessel having to actually detect it themselves.

Having the capability for a ship to fire on targets with its own sensors having to "see" them, allows for increased standoff range, shorter cycle time, and lets the whole CEC fleet intercept threats with only a single only platform actually "seeing" or detecting them.

So yes, your scenario follows.

What was the reason that the Zumwalt went with TSCE as an infrastructure? There must be something in it that the Aegis system wasn't providing.
I think the idea was to develop a US Navy total Open Architecture Computing Environment (OACE) which they were orginally going to use to improve AEGIS.

The Total Ship computing environment (TSCE) developed from this effort, with a lot of input and inspiration from the Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) and other NAval R&D efforts. It was desired to develop such an architecture for the ZUmwalts because they were the next big surfqace combatant program at the time.

It was meant to involve a system that would integrate the battle management software, electromechanical systems, sensors, maintenance, weapons systems, etc. into an standard overall architecture that would also use Commerical Off the Shelve Systsms (COTS) to develop a unified system.

overall this ended up going well beyond AEGIS alone. At some point, I do not know when, where, or who ultimately approved it, the overall architecture became its own and it evolved away from being a direct AEGIS system.

In the mean time, due to costs, downsizing the total buy, etc. it became a deciated Zumwalt system that through CEC would talk to and work with AEGIS, but not be AEGIS.

I think that is a 20,000 foot overview of how it got where it is.

Perhaps it will be adopted for other, later applications...but the US Navy also made a conscience decision to continue the development of AEGIS separate from this particularly with the BMD enhancements...and now the two are not compatible for TSCE to adopt BMD< or AEGIS to be Totla Ship Computing. It would be possible to develop a separate BMD capability for TSCE, but th Navy has decided that this is too expensive and represents a duplication of effort it does not want.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
At that point I also have a question here. I guess the Zumwalts will carry SPG-62 illuminators? I haven't seen that mentioned somewhere so far, but with an S-band only mainradar, they need something for terminal guidance of the ESSMs.

Scratch look up joint universal waveform link.. Too lazy to explain by typing! Lol
It's integrated into the essm and sm2 to work with spy3.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
At that point I also have a question here. I guess the Zumwalts will carry SPG-62 illuminators? I haven't seen that mentioned somewhere so far, but with an S-band only mainradar, they need something for terminal guidance of the ESSMs.

It will not carry illuminators.
And the Zumwalts do not have an S band radar -- it has an X band main radar, the SPY-3. The SPY-4 was the S band volume search radar that was removed.

Terminal guidance can thus be potentially be provided by the SPY-3, likely similar to the Thales X band APAR.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Maybe said before but not clear for me I recapitulate :

A AEGIS or like ship can engage much targets simultaneously in general btw 12/22 much more tracked, ofc always less engaged.

More old ships use several fire control radars 1/6 which can engage 1/2 targets each can engage a total of 2/9 targets simultaneously max.
The best Kirov/Velikiy 9 targets but 2 missiles guided by targets more efficient all S-300/400 system guide 2 miss by target engaged.

AEGIS or like capacity is only possible with very good electronic PC, software in CEC... and very modern sensors/radars especialy PESA/AESA.

AEGIS was created for defend CBG vs Soviet saturating attack which could include up to about 100 missiles ! Bombers,Tu-22M/Tu-16, SSGN and eventually ships then USN wanted have idealy 2 Ticonderoga with 2/3 others ships in each CBG for engage about 60 targets/missiles in more Phoenix AAM on F-14 with E-2 was anti missiles.

Then, I have no doubt for Zumwalt electronic systems but for SPY-3 it is a fire control radar also as SPY-1 ? a dual radar which can search and engage targets and with ships electronic systems much ?
or eventualy get a other radar for do it ?
 
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As I'm a big fan of Naval Artillery, and with the Zumwalt in the water, I opened the files I have on
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and the most important are:
  1. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS FOR SURFACE COMBATANT LAND ATTACK WARFARE, 2005-2015 (January 2003) available from
    Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
    but I'd appreciate a link to an update
  2. also dated (2007) "Joint and Interdependent Requirements: A Case Study in Solving
    the Naval Surface Fire Support Capabilities Gap"
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  3. Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  4. (probably just for me :) a special issue of some Polish naval journal (2012)
For now, can anybody add related sources which wouldn't just copy what's inside of those I quoted above?
 

Brumby

Major
As I'm a big fan of Naval Artillery, and with the Zumwalt in the water, I opened the files I have on
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

and the most important are:
  1. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS FOR SURFACE COMBATANT LAND ATTACK WARFARE, 2005-2015 (January 2003) available from
    Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
    but I'd appreciate a link to an update
  2. also dated (2007) "Joint and Interdependent Requirements: A Case Study in Solving
    the Naval Surface Fire Support Capabilities Gap"
    Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  3. Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  4. (probably just for me :) a special issue of some Polish naval journal (2012)
For now, can anybody add related sources which wouldn't just copy what's inside of those I quoted above?
Personally I think the requirement for Naval Surface Fire Support is diminishing due to alternate delivery means and the risk to surface vessels because of long range standoff ASM.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Is is important specify AGS can only fire on land targets no on a ship, planned later and seems no anti-aircrafts.

And right now Zumwalt get only few AsuW capacity with MH-60R armed only with small Helfire and eventualy SM-2 SSM capable really better but don' t have a warhead also big as a Harpoon less efficient.
LRASM later but in first for aircrafts then realy later 2020+...

And a question to make the honors sailors take place where on the ship o_O
 
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