View Poll Results: Future caliber of next generation assault rifles
Keep the 5.56 0 0%
Shift to the 7.62 0 0%
Standardize the 6.5 Grendel 1 33.33%
Standardize the 6.8SPC 1 33.33%
Other 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll
Next Generation Caliber?
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I've always been curious as to what the consensus is on the current NATO standard rounds. Recently there have been several attempts at creating an assault rifle round that fits between the 5.56x45 and 7.62x51. It seems the goal is to find a combination that has increased lethality over the 5.56x45, but still is a practical size and weight in use for an assault rifle and has low enough recoil that it's possible to engage in fully automatic suppressive fire.
The two that stand out for me are the 6.8SPC and the 6.5 Grendel; but there may be more that I am unaware of.
What do people think of these two cartridges? Do they have potential to be adopted by the military? Is there a significant need to replace the 5.56x45? What trade offs do you think best fit an assault rifle cartridge?
Trying to prevent the need for people to visit other sites, I've copy and pasted some of the articles I found below. Sorry if this creates issues with scrolling down.
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6.5 Grendel: The World’s Best Assault Rifle Cartridge
By Stan Crist
In 1892 the U. S. Army adopted its first smokeless-powder small-arms cartridge. Designated the .30 Army, the then-new round was fired in Krag-Jorgensen infantry rifles and cavalry carbines, as well as the multi-barrel, rapid-fire Gatling guns. Thus began the practice of having a single caliber for rifles and machine guns, a practice that continued for half a century.
With the advent of the Second World War, the American military developed and fielded the .30 Carbine round, the world’s first purpose-designed, intermediate-power cartridge to enter service. Although the .30-caliber M1 carbine was originally intended to be a personal defense weapon, augmenting the larger .30-06 rifle and machine-gun round, its minimal weight, compact size, and increased firepower caused the troops to use it as a de facto assault rifle.
That two-caliber small-arms system lasted through the Korean War, at which time the U. S. Army attempted to revert to having a one-caliber system by adopting the 7.62mm NATO cartridge, for use in the M14 rifle and M60 machine gun. Unfortunately, the ammo produced almost as much recoil as the .30-06 it replaced, causing the M14 to have poor controllability in full-auto fire, even in the relatively heavy M14A1 automatic rifle version.
Also, the M14 — which was originally intended to be a “light rifle” — was nearly as heavy as its predecessor, the famed M1 Garand. Because of the weight factor, the Air Force refused to adopt the M14, and in the early 1960s purchased the AR15 with its 5.56mm round, a rifle that was almost as delightfully lightweight as the obsolescent carbines then in its inventory. Not long after that, the Secretary of Defense directed the Army to also buy the AR15 (subsequently dubbed the M16A1) and discontinue acquisition of M14 rifles, thereby forcing the Army back into a two-caliber system that endures to this day.
Is there a way to avoid a two-caliber system? It seems clear that it cannot be done with a full-power 7.62mm round, as the power of the ammunition determines the size and weight of the weapon. The Chinese have recently made a valiant effort to combine low weight with high performance in their 5.8x42 intermediate cartridge, but long-range effectiveness of the 5.8mm round has reportedly been found unsatisfactory for machine gun use. To date, every nation that has adopted intermediate-power ammunition for combat rifles has found it necessary to also retain a full-power cartridge in the inventory for machine guns and sniper rifles.
This long-running conflict between the quest for minimum weight and maximum performance raises the thought, is a one-caliber family of small arms any longer even an achievable goal? Some have suggested that Alexander Arms' 6.5 Grendel cartridge might be a viable answer to that question. To confirm this idea will require taking a look at the desired characteristics of the infantry rifle, machine gun, and sniper rifle, and then see if the 6.5mm round is truly capable of filling those needs.
Some individuals think that performance of 6.5 Grendel (center) is so good that it has the potential to replace not only 5.56mm NATO (left), but 7.62mm NATO (right) as well.
Evaluation Parameters
Infantry rifle. The weapon should have a large magazine capacity, weigh as little as possible, and provide a maximum effective range of at least 500 meters.
Machine gun. Same weight considerations as for the infantry rifle, but with maximum effective range of 1100-1200 meters. Penetration of "hard" targets should be comparable to that of the 7.62 NATO M80 Ball round.
Sniper rifle. Weight of weapon and ammunition is not as important as accuracy and effective range, which should be at least 800 meters.
Ballistic Performance
Perhaps the most logical start point for such an examination is the increased range advantage claimed for 6.5 Grendel. Unfortunately, full metal jacket (FMJ) ammunition in this caliber is not yet available, so any comparison to 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO Ball would be somewhat hypothetical in nature. However, since Sierra MatchKing bullets are loaded in the 7.62mm ammo used by snipers and 5.56mm ammo of special operations forces (SOF), a comparison with 6.5mm MatchKing loads should be sufficiently “apples to apples” for a useful evaluation of relative performance.
Sierra MatchKing projectiles: (l. to r.) 5.56mm 77-grain, 6.5mm 123-grain, 7.62mm 168-grain.
Ballistic coefficient (BC) is an indicator of how well a projectile retains velocity during its passage through the air. The higher the BC, the slower will be the rate at which the bullet loses velocity during flight, thereby making a correspondingly flatter trajectory. A list of BCs for applicable MatchKing loads is as follows:
5.56mm Mk262 77gr: BC = 0.362
7.62mm M852 168gr: BC = 0.462
7.62mm M118LR 175gr: BC = 0.496
6.5mm Grendel 123gr: BC = 0.510
When launched from a 20-inch barrel, the 6.5mm 123-grain MatchKing actually shoots a bit flatter than the 7.62mm sniper rounds, and its trajectory is considerably better than that of the 5.56mm Mk262. In addition, wind drift of the 6.5mm bullet is likewise superior to the other calibers. What this means is that an accurized version of the M16A4 rifle, chambered in 6.5 Grendel, would be capable of performing the precision-fire missions that are now done with two different weapons and calibers. The Marines employ the 5.56mm squad advanced marksman rifle (SAMR) and the 7.62mm Mk11 semi-auto sniper rifle, while the Army uses the 5.56mm squad designated marksman rifle (SDMR) and the 7.62mm M110 semi-auto sniper system (SASS).
An accurized M16 in 6.5 Grendel would be capable of precision engagements at long distances. (Courtesy of U.S. Marine Corps)
Even when fired from the shorter, 14-inch barrels of the Mk16 combat rifle that the Marines are reportedly evaluating, and the M4A1 carbine that is currently in service, trajectory and wind drift of the 6.5mm MatchKing are nearly as good as for 7.62mm sniper weapons. Because of the superior ballistic efficiency, 6.5mm carbines sacrifice little ability to “reach out and touch someone” compared to their 5.56mm siblings. This is a matter of some importance, since the compact, fast-handling carbines are increasingly being used to replace M16 rifles. As a prime example, the Army decided in 2006 to pure fleet deploying Brigade Combat Teams with M4A1 carbines in “next to deploy” order as they prepare for assignments in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The M4A1 carbine has been the subject of more than a few complaints regarding failures to incapacitate enemy fighters. Conversion to 6.5 Grendel would correct that deficiency, and also increase long range capability. (Courtesy of U.S. Army)
Terminal Effects
The primary mechanism for the lethality of 5.56mm ammo is the fragmentation that results when the bullet impacts soft tissue at high speed. M855 Ball does not attain sufficient velocity from carbine barrels to produce this effect beyond a short distance, so SOF units received approval to use the Mk262 round, a load that Black Hills had been manufacturing for service rifle competition. The 77-grain Sierra MatchKing loaded in Mk262 ammo offers a significant improvement in range and terminal performance, particularly for short-barreled weapons.
As might be expected, bigger MatchKings produce greater fragmentation and correspondingly larger wound cavities. In May 2006 ballistic gelatin tests were conducted for 6.5 Grendel ammunition loaded with 123-grain MatchKings, which penetrated 2.0-2.5 inches before yawing and fragmenting. The gelatin blocks were shot from a distance of 50 yards, using an Alexander Arms Tactical 14.5 carbine. With an impact velocity of 2385 feet per second, maximum penetration was a shade over 16 inches, and maximum permanent cavity diameter was more than 6 inches. The bullet broke apart into multiple small fragments with jacket pieces visible at 11 inches and 13 inches.
Gelatin block hit with a 6.5mm 123-grain Sierra MatchKing shows substantially greater disruption than blocks hit by 5.56mm projectiles.
After seeing the results of these tests, LCDR Gary K. Roberts (who performs terminal ballistics testing for the military) noted that 6.5 Grendel appears to offer outstanding terminal performance from 14.5-inch barrels “that is far superior to any 5.56mm loads.”
Penetration Potential
In urban combat, such as has occurred in Iraq over the last four years, machine guns will often be used to engage enemy personnel behind obstructions such as vehicles and building walls. The intense firefights in Somalia during 1993 first showed all too dramatically that the 5.56 NATO round was deficient at punching through such barriers, an important factor in adoption of the 7.62mm M240B machine gun.
When better penetration or longer range is required, the 7.62mm M240B machine gun is called into action. However, a light machine gun chambered in 6.5mm Grendel may be able to provide comparable "punching power" and effective range, without the weight penalties of the larger caliber weapon and ammunition. (Courtesy of U.S. Army)
The capability of a bullet to penetrate “hard” targets is determined by several factors, including impact velocity, core hardness, jacket toughness, and sectional density. All other factors being equal, a bullet with greater sectional density will have superior penetration capability. The potential of the 6.5 Grendel in this regard was dramatically illustrated during a May 2004 demonstration at the Blackwater training facility. Lapua 6.5mm 144-grain full metal jacket bullets fired from an Alexander Arms rifle punched through a 1.575" thickness of glass armor that was designed to stop 7.62mm M80 Ball.
Lapua’s 6.5mm 144-grain FMJBT bullet (left) exhibited better penetration of armor glass than did 7.62mm 147-grain M80 Ball (right), despite a 400 fps slower muzzle velocity.
This was quite an impressive accomplishment, and indicates that 6.5 Grendel may very well be capable of matching, if not exceeding, the performance of 7.62 NATO against targets taking cover behind trees, walls, cars, etc. However, final conclusions cannot be reached until testing is done with lighter bullets, since 144 grains is widely thought to be excessively heavy for a 6.5 Grendel general purpose combat load. FMJ projectiles of 110-120 grains in weight are said to be in various stages of development, but won’t likely be in production in the near future.
Carry Load
One minor drawback of 6.5 Grendel is the weight of the ammunition, some 30% heavier than that of the 5.56mm Mk262 cartridge. This means that for a basic load of ten magazines (nine in pouches, plus one in the gun), there is a slight increase in the carry load, as well as a decrease in the number of rounds immediately available to the rifleman.
5.56 Mk262: 10 x 30-rd mags = 300 rds @ 11.2 lbs
6.5 Grendel: 10 x 26-rd mags = 260 rds @ 13.6 lbs
Although this difference could conceivably be critical in some isolated instances of sustained combat where resupply is not possible, the reduced quantity of ammunition must necessarily be balanced against the increased per round terminal effects. Lethality, penetration, trajectory, windage, and other factors are likely to be far more important in most “close encounters of the hostile kind.” Superiority of 6.5 Grendel over 5.56 NATO in these areas is so great that it might outweigh the difference in ammo load. Anecdotal reports from Iraq say that often multiple hits are required with 5.56mm to incapacitate an opponent. If use of 6.5mm reduces the number of hits needed to neutralize a threat, the “stored kills” would effectively increase in spite of the reduction in magazine capacity.
Conclusion
The Army had a logistically sound idea in trying to create a one-caliber, small arms system in the 1950s, but the 7.62 NATO cartridge was simply too powerful to be compatible with a lightweight combat rifle. As a result, today we have a two-caliber system with a relatively short-range, low-power 5.56mm cartridge for use in infantry rifles, carbines, and light machine guns, and a long-range, high-power 7.62mm round fired in sniper rifles and medium machine guns.
Can we have it all? That is, can we have a lightweight, fast-handling weapon like an M4 carbine, and still have the long range “punch” of an M14 rifle? Has ammunition technology grown to the point where we don’t have to choose between minimum weight and maximum performance? The answer, in the form of the 6.5 Grendel, seems to be a resounding, “Yes!”
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The 6.5 Grendel--A Quick History
John Hanka, creator of 65Grendel.com, tells us: "The 6.5 Grendel is an evolution of the 6.5 PPC, first created by Dr. Lou Palmisano when he developed his famous 22 PPC and 6PPC. Com-petition shooter Arne Brennan of Houston, Texas, saw the potential in Palmisano's 6.5 PPC wildcat. He had a custom AR15 built to shoot it and used high BC bullets to take it out to 1000 yards. Roughly at the same time, Alexander Arms was experimenting with the 6.5 PPC for use in AR15s. Brennan and Alexander Arms compared notes and worked together to produce the resulting cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel. Alexander Arms contracted with Lapua to finalize the specifications and to produce the brass. Brass and loaded ammunition are now available."
6.5 Grendel Cartridge Specifications
Case length is 39mm. Case head diameter is .445". Case capacity is 35.0 grains of water and about 32.5 grains powder. The cartridge was developed to maximize performance in the AR15 platform. In that role, magazine-length loads are limited to 2.255" OAL. However, in single-round loading or in a bolt-action rifle, OAL can be extended with bullets up to 130 grains as far as 2.420".
Arne Brennan's custom 6.5 Grendel single-shot rifle in Speedy/Robertson F-Class Stock.
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6.5 Grendel -- Origins and Performance
by Arne Brennan
Development of the Round -- A PPC-Based 6.5mm Cartridge for Long-Range
The 6.5 Grendel was originally conceived for the AR15 platform. The idea was to have a cartridge that performed better at long-range than the .223 Remington, while still retaining the ability to feed multiple rounds from a magazine. AR15 National Match and cross-course shooters had turned to the long 80-90 grain VLD bullets in pursuit of better long-range ballistics. However, this required that the rounds be single-fed because the OAL (with VLDs) exceeded mag length. I wanted a cartridge that would mag-feed as well as the .223 Remington. In addition, I wanted a cartridge that would be good for hunting whitetail deer, feral hogs and other game.
While .223-chambered AR15s shooting VLDs performed well out to 600 yards and beyond, this was not an ideal solution. Given a choice of platform, top cross-course competitors favored other cartridges such as the 6mm BR Norma, 6mmXC, and .260 Remington in rifles such as the Tubb 2000, "Tube Guns" or the Armalite AR10. I wanted to develop a better round that would still work with the AR15 platform.
I looked to the PPC family of cases for the answer, since the PPC is considered the most accurate case design ever invented. The 22 PPC would drive the 80gr bullets needed for 600 yards in a mag-friendly length. However, I didn’t feel the 22 PPC using 80gr bullets would provide the competitive edge I was seeking nor would it perform well for hunting. In contrast to the 22 PPC, the 6PPC was able to do both jobs (competition and hunting) by using 105gr Bergers or 107gr SMKs for competition and 85-100 grain Nosler Partitions for hunting. But one thing still bothered me about the 6PPC. The 2.255" max mag length meant I had to seat the 105-107 grain bullets way back in the case, or I had to modify the mags. Notching magazines had zero appeal so before going further with the 6 PPC, I decided to think "out of the box".
I knew that Sierra made a 6.5mm 107gr Match King and Lapua made a 6.5mm 108gr Scenar. Given their larger diameter, these bullets were actually shorter than their 6mm counterparts. So, I could use these 6.5mm bullets without seating bullets back in the case or notching magazines. Then, I found that Lapua's 123gr 6.5mm Scenar matched the BC of Sierra's 107gr 6mm MatchKing yet it was no longer than the 108gr Scenar! Bingo--by moving up to 6.5mm, I could equal 6PPC ballistics with a 107gr Sierra without modifying mags or seating the bullet too deep in the case. In addition, 6.5mm was a proven game caliber with many good 100-125gr controlled expansion hunting bullets available.
In mid 1998, I made the commitment to go with a 6.5mm version of the PPC and contacted JGS Tool to construct a reamer. Since there were no standards for or published history on the 6.5 PPC, JGS Tool constructed a reamer with no throat and provided me with a separate 6.5 mm throat reamer to allow the gunsmith to cut the throat to proper length for my application. Using the final reamer dimensions, Redding constructed a bushing type full length-resizing die. Only thing left was to take the leap of faith and begin construction of a rifle. After speaking with numerous gunsmiths, Scott Medesha of Medesha Firearms undertook the project and delivered a custom rifle in late 2000.
As load development and testing continued, I discovered the 6.5 PPC was very effective and accurate using medium weight 6.5 mm bullets. My initial goal of achieving 2650 fps was surpassed as I developed loads using moly-coated Cauteruccio 128-grain bullets achieving 2750-2800 fps. I've tried a variety of powders, and right now Vihtavuori N530 is the most promising in terms of velocity, but I'm convinced the cartridge will perform well with a variety of propellants. Alexander Arms now offers 6.5 Grendel ammunition in Lapua brass, loaded to AR15 mag length with a choice of three different premium bullets. Alexander uses readily-available powders so hand-loaders can duplicate the recipes.
Load Development and 1000-yard Performance
Arne tells us: "Having shot thousands of rounds in developing the 6.5 Grendel cartridge (and in testing 6.5 PPCs), we had a good idea of what would work in the bolt gun--Vihtavuori N530 and Western TAC. Both these powders have load densities, kernel sizes, and burn rates that work well with the Grendel case. Though we're still early in the load development process for the F-Classer, our load of Vihtavuori N530 with Fed 205M primers and moly'd JLK 130s produces consistent 2760 fps velocities from a 28" barrel. This load is grouping well, even though it took some time for us to get used to that 2-ounce Jewell trigger! (To an AR15 shooter, one pound is a "light" trigger pull). The N530 and JLK 130gr VLD load produced 6"-7" witnessed five-shot groups at 1,000 yards. The amount of drop at 1000 yards surprised us--an even 30 MOA of adjustment (from a 100-yard zero) got us on target at 1000. That's nearly dead-even with a 6BR shooting a 107gr Sierra MK at 2900 fps. That means, at very long-range, the superior BC of the 6.5mm JLK made up for the lower initial velocity of the Grendel.
Though the 130gr JLK's performance has been great, we are studying ways to bump up the velocity. That would make the 6.5 Grendel's long-range performance even more impressive. Right now, as you're reading this, Speedy is working on a 30- or 32-inch barrel. We've tested many barrel lengths in Grendel-chambered ARs. Those tests suggest we can get a solid 2800 fps in a 30" barrel using the current load. And that load isn't a barrel-burner by any means. I have no worry about barrel life with the 6.5 Grendel. My original AR prototype is still shooting bugholes with over 6,000 shots down the bore."
How the 6.5 Grendel Stacks Up Ballistically
With the great performance of the 6BR, and the availability of larger 6.5mm cartridges such as the Rem 260 (6.5-08), one can ask "what is the advantage of the 6.5 Grendel"? The answer is three-fold: size (form factor), efficiency, and BC. The Grendel will fit in an AR15 platform. The Rem 260 will not. The Grendel can push a 130gr bullet to 2760 fps with 15 grains less powder than a Rem 260. Burning less powder reduces recoil, and signficantly extends barrel life.
Compared to a 6BR, the 6.5 Grendel enjoys the advantage of shooting higher BC bullets. For example, the 6.5mm Lapua Scenar 123gr bullet, with its .542 BC, beats the .530 BC 6mm 107gr Sierra Match-King. And the new 6.5mm 130gr JLK bullets enjoy a BC advantage over ANY 6mm projectile available, even the DTAC 115gr. Initial tests of the 130gr JLK show a BC of .620, which beats the DTAC, with its BC of approximately .580. The larger bore diameter of the 6.5 Grendel allows it to drive a heavier bullet at lower pressures. The same principle applies to the 30BR, one of the most efficient cartridges ever.
A 6.5 Grendel shooting a 130-grain JLK delivers 29% more energy on target at 600 yards than a 6mm BR shooting a 105-grain Scenar.
Energy on Target--Advantage Grendel
In a bolt gun, the 6.5 Grendel can push the 130gr JLK (loaded long) to 2760 fps. Comparing the ballistics with a 6BR shooting a 105gr Scenar at 2850 fps, the Grendel has just 3" more drop at 600 yards (102.9" vs. 100.2"), and, surprisingly, the Grendel bucks the wind better. With a 10 mph crosswind, the Grendel's 130 JLK drifts 20.9" at 600 yards, while the 105 Scenar drifts 23.8", based on PointBlank software calculations. So, with the 6.5 Grendel, you get performance very similar to a 6BR, with the benefit of a heavier bullet that may work better on knockdown targets.
Silhouette shooters have favored 6.5mm cartridges over 6mm variants because, no matter what the computers say, the larger diameter bullets just seem to smack the silhouettes more reliably than the 6mms. This may be a function of bullet cross-section as much as terminal energy--the fatter the bullet the more it tends to transfer energy to the target rather than penetrate or shatter. By the numbers, a 105gr 6mm Scenar launched with 2850 muzzle velocity (MV) retains 870 ft/lbs energy at 600 yards. The 130gr JLK with 2760 MV has 1130 ft/lbs of retained energy at 600 yards--29% more than the 105gr Scenar. Silhouette shooters, have we got your attention yet?
Factory Loaded Ammo--This Ain't No Wildcat
Among the many 6.5mm, short fat cartridges, the 6.5 Grendel stands alone as a standardized round, with
high-quality Lapua brass AND factory-loaded ammo. Optimized for the AR platform, 6.5 Grendel ammunition from Alexander Arms operates at a safe and sane 49,000 psi. Using the excellent 123gr Lapua Scenar bullet (.542 BC), the loaded ammo will run 2670 fps from a 26" barrel, and will feed reliably from a magazine. Custom 10- and 17-round 6.5 Grendel AR magazines are available for $27.00 from CompetitionShootingSports.com.
Current factory-loaded Alexander Arms cartridges are shown in the photo. Left to right: 129gr Hornady SST, 123gr Lapua Scenar, 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Ballistics for Alexander Arms' factory-loaded ammo have not yet been released. However, I've produced a detailed ballistics chart for the 6.5 Grendel with 108gr, 123gr and 144gr bullets. It includes the .223 Rem, 6.8 SPC and 7.62x51 NATO (.308) for comparison.
For quite some time, Alexander Arms has offered loaded 6.5 Grendel ammo built with premium Lapua brass and bullets. That is great stuff, but a bit pricey at $24.99 per box.
Now Grendel shooters have an alternative. Alexander Arms now sells low-cost 6.5 Grendel Ammunition made by Wolf. Priced at just $10.77 per box of 20, the Wolf ammo is loaded with a 123gr softpoint bullet that packs enough punch for deer-hunters. The round, which runs about 2600 fps, is also well-suited for target and varmint use. Wolf 6.5 Grendel ammo is also available from MidwayUSA for $10.99 per box of 20, item 449268. For review of Grendel loaded ammo, visit 65Grendel.com.
6.5 Grendel for Hunting and Long-Range Shooting in the AR15 Platform Run the ballistics and you'll see why the 6.5 Grendel is finding favor with so many AR15 shooters. The Grendel cartridge offers a high-BC projectile in a normal magazine-length format. Feeding is reliable with the dedicated Grendel mags now being produced. The 6.5 Grendel transforms the AR as a hunting rifle, allowing it to shoot very effective polymer tipped and controlled-expansion bullets up to 125 grains. An AR15 for white-tails? You bet. The Sierra 120gr Pro-Hunter SPT or Nosler 125gr Partition will perform admirably at the velocities allowed by the 6.5 Grendel.
What the Future Holds
In summary, the 6.5 Grendel was developed to take the AR15 to a new level giving it the long-range capability of the M14 and 7.62 NATO cartridge as well as making for a mild-recoiling hunting cartridge suitable for many North American game animals. In competition, I believe it is only a matter of time until more shooters use the 6.5 Grendel to improve their standings. One customer, who recently used both the 6.5 Grendel in an AR15 and the 6XC in a Tubb 2000, posted virtually identical scores in the same match with both rifles/cartridges. When asked if he could have equaled his Tubb 2000/6XC score with his AR15 .223 rifle, his simple response was "no way". In the bolt gun sports, the 6.5 Grendel has received interest from a variety of disciplines including F-Class, Tactical, Benchrest and Silhouette.
Silhouette shooters are especially pleased with the availability of factory ammo in sufficient quantity to make the cartridge legal for Hunter Class Silhouette. In the Benchrest arena, Dr. Palmisano has started the ball rolling--getting some top bullet-makers working on new, light 6.5mm flat-base bullets.
In the military and law-enforcement fields, there is much interest in the Grendel. The Grendel can be belt-fed and discussions have been underway for quite awhile with companies involved in producing belt-fed systems. It also works very well in full-auto and three-shot burst mode using the AR platform.
Grendel Ammo, Components, Accessories, and Complete Rifles
Everything you need for a 6.5 Grendel project is available from Competition Shooting Sports (CSS), (281) 330-0352 in Houston, TX. This includes brass, bullets, magazines, complete AR15 uppers, and loaded 6.5 Grendel ammunition from Alexander Arms.
The complete SG&Y F-Class rifle is also sold by CSS for $3850 without optics, chambered for 6.5 Grendel. A variety of other chamberings are available. For more information on the 6.5 Grendel cartridge, visit
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Latest Developments--CIP Specifications on the Way
The cartridge is going through the CIP process and the detailed max specifications will be released at that time. These maximum specifications are in excess of the loads used in factory ammo for the AR15 due to bolt thrust limitations of the locking lug system. I have known Bill Alexander for many years and one thing he is safe and with hundreds upon hundreds of Grendel's out shooting without any failure, I would I say the proof is in the hand of shooters.
Given the sheer volume of Grendel brass that has been sold or given away at events such as SHOT show (2004 and 2005) and NRA show (2005), the cases are out there for someone to measure. As far as releasing the reamer specs, there are multiple reamer versions for various platforms and applications. This is no different then a standard .223 Rem chamber and other designs such as the Wylde chamber. I hate to think how many versions of the 6 PPC are out there and I am sure people have quite a few versions of the 6BR as well.
When the cartridge is CIP'd, a standard chamber specification will be in the public domain and people will then start tweaking the clearances and throats for their purposes. I have my own clearances [for a match reamer] as does Speedy Gonzalez. Robert Whitley has his necked-down version he calls the 6mmAR. Currently, for a variety of reasons, I have no plans to release the detailed dimensions of the match chamber I use nor will I authorize the reamer maker to sell the reamer to the public.