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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Brumby

The strategic planners in the navy and air force cannot look at just today's geopolitical situation.
They have to look some 20 years into the future, given the decade-long development time for military equipment.

We only have to look at the recent Australian Defence White Paper, which projects that China will be spending more than the USA on the military by 2035. You can go argue with those economic and military experts if you fundamentally disagree with their assessment.

One is an assessment from Nature, which look at how China is on track to spend more than the US on R&D by 2020. Again, go complain about the methodology if you disagree.

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And Taiwan is very relevant with respect to railguns. The US has very few scenarios where railgun shore bombardment is realistically possible AND offers anything significantly extra, whereas for China, being able to blanket Taiwan with low-cost railgun artillery rounds is a game-changing capability for them. And remember that the US implicitly supplies a security guarantee to Taiwan.

Anyway, I think I'm done with this topic as I have nothing else to add.
 
bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
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04.03.2016...
CNN)A U.S. Navy aircraft carrier strike group is operating in the South China Sea, with the Chinese Navy apparently keeping close watch.

The Navy's Seventh Fleet said in a press release Friday that the USS John S. Stennis, a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, as well as the guided-missile destroyers USS Chung-Hoon and USS Stockdale, the guided-missile cruiser USS Mobile Bay and the supply ship USNS Rainier had been operating in the eastern part of the South China Sea since March 1 after passing through the Luzon Strait between the Philippines and Taiwan.

Chinese naval ships were "in the vicinity," the U.S. Navy release said.

Much of the South China Sea is subject to territorial disputes between Asian nations, and tensions have increased as China asserts its claims over disputed areas by building infrastructure, including harbors and airstrips on islands in the sea and upping its military presence. Those areas, however, are in the western and southern portions of the South China Sea.

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Capt. Greg Huffman, Stennis' commanding officer, noted an increase in Chinese activity near the ships in his strike group.

"We have Chinese ships around us that we normally didn't see in my past experience," Huffman said in the Navy release. He last deployed there in 2007.

Huffman said there had been no problems between the U.S. and Chinese ships.

"Everything I have heard over bridge-to-bridge channels has been good communications between professional mariners," he was quoted as saying.

The Navy said the presence of the Stennis group is a routine deployment.

But the Seventh Fleet release mentions other recent movements "similar" to the current one that have had a broader mission.

Take the cruise by the guided missile destroyer
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, which was described by the U.S. Defense Department as intended to challenge "excessive maritime claims that restrict the rights and freedoms of the United States and others."

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"This operation demonstrates, as President (Barack) Obama and Secretary (Ash) Carter have stated, the United States will fly, sail and operate anywhere international law allows. That is true in the South China Sea, as in other places around the globe," the Pentagon said at the time.

The Curtis Wilbur, an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer, sailed within 12 nautical miles of the Triton Island. The island is part of the Paracel Islands, an archipelago claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam in the western portion of the South China Sea.

A spokesman for China's legislature said Friday that it is Washington, not Beijing, that is heating up "militarization" of the South China Sea.

"Some reports try to blame China for affecting freedom of navigation and undermining the stability of this region," Fu Ying is quoted as saying by China's state-run
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.

"Such practice misrepresents the situation. Talking about militarization, if we look at those advanced ships and aircraft going in and out of the South China Sea, aren't most of them from the U.S.?" Fu is quoted as saying by Xinhua, which added, "Fu shared her views as an ordinary Chinese."

CNN's Barbara Starr and Joshua Berlinger contributed to this report.
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Brumby

Brumby

Major
AndrewS said:
The strategic planners in the navy and air force cannot look at just today's geopolitical situation.
They have to look some 20 years into the future, given the decade-long development time for military equipment.

We only have to look at the recent Australian Defence White Paper, which projects that China will be spending more than the USA on the military by 2035. You can go argue with those economic and military experts if you fundamentally disagree with their assessment.
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In basic reasoning, an argument is cogent because one or more of the premises used in support of the conclusion is sound. In other words, the conclusion follows logically the premises and by this it has to meet two tests; (a) there is a nexus between the premise and the conclusion; and (b) the premise itself is true or has truth values. The problem is that you very frequently bend logic to sustain your arguments and at best they are fallacies and at worst presenting a false narrative.
So let's deconstruct your arguments as per the two test :
Your arguments on the rail gun are basically based on a combination of premises which feature the same theme i.e. a future state in which China based on certain trajectory will not only outspend but also out innovate the US and hence it is futile for the US to take such a pathway.
What then is the problem with such premises :
(i) A future state is a contingent event. It doesn't exist as yet and neither there is any certainty it will come to past except in your argument that it is a certainty.
(ii)Overall spending doesn't equate to success in a particular field of technology although in your reasoning that relationship doesn't matter. In fact it is oblivious to you there are many examples of R & D spending that does not result in application.
(iii)Appeal to authority that somehow innovation in some areas that has any direct relationship to rail gun technology.
All these examples are fallacies in reasoning that attempt to link some disparate events into your arguments as if they are related and in support of your conclusion.

AndrewS said:
One is an assessment from Nature, which look at how China is on track to spend more than the US on R&D by 2020. Again, go complain about the methodology if you disagree.

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Click to expand...
An example of the fallacious appeal to authority to link to a rail gun discussion and besides it is a prediction.

AndrewS said:
And Taiwan is very relevant with respect to railguns. The US has very few scenarios where railgun shore bombardment is realistically possible AND offers anything significantly extra, whereas for China, being able to blanket Taiwan with low-cost railgun artillery rounds is a game-changing capability for them. And remember that the US implicitly supplies a security guarantee to Taiwan.
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This is an example of attempting to find any example to fit a chosen narrative. The US rail gun development has no utility vis a vis Taiwan. How China wishes to blanket Taiwan is China's problem. What is the connection test between US rail gun development and Taiwan?

AndrewS said:
Anyway, I think I'm done with this topic as I have nothing else to add.
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Whether it is done is your prerogative. You should note though that there are others who are as ready to called out fallacious statements.
 
TerraN_EmpirE

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I am surprised by the size of the Green Beret force. It is much bigger than the rest. I understand Army Rangers typically acts as the security shield for special operations but what is the primary role of the Green Berets
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the Green Berets are not conventional Special forces. Rangers serve as elite light infantry they are regular Army at heart but deploy and operate across a wider range of missions. they fulfill the original Commando mission set. Delta force are Raiders they are mission set mostly for counter terror and specialize in high value raids but can be used in other tasks.
both are conventional SF teams in the like of the SAS. Green Berets are army builders, They specialize in liaison missions with allied forces and training. Their job is that of the old Jedburgh teams of the OSS in WW2, they would drop into enemy territory meet up with local resistance groups, train them, equip them to a degree, mount operations against enemy forces. As such they are extensively cross trained and specialize in languages and guerilla warfare tactics.

.
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
TerraN_EmpirE said:
The mission is needed brat, 75 year old B52s are harder to justify as they move closer to the century mark. ...
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... but
The B-52 could rise again, this time to fight ISIS
The B-52 Stratofortress could begin dropping bombs on the Islamic State group come April.

The bombers would be headed to the Central Command area of operations to replace the B-1 Lancers, the last of them
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, officials were
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. The B-1s should return this summer after they receive additional upgrades.

Neither the number of B-52s nor number of airmen, under Air Force Global Strike Command, have been disclosed yet for the potential operation.

The aircraft, which had been used to drop unguided bombs in previous wars, including Afghanistan, can now be used to provide backup with the accuracy of precision-guided munitions. If scheduled, it would be the first deployment for the bombers to fight Islamic State targets, also known as ISIS or ISIL.

“We’re going to keep the B-52 around. It provides some missions for us that are hard to replicate, primarily the range and payload the airplane provides,” Lt. Gen. James “Mike” Holmes, the deputy chief of staff for strategic plans and requirements, told Air Force Times on Feb. 18.

The service is focusing on a modernization effort to make sure the B-52s stay flying for years to come, potentially as late as 2040, officials have said.

How the B-52, nicknamed the "Big Ugly Fat Fella" or BUFF, will define its new legacy against the terror organization in territories across Iraq and Syria remains to be seen.

Its payload capacity — 70,000 pounds, which includes “gravity bombs, cluster bombs, precision guided (cruise) missiles and joint direct attack munitions” — just skirts the B-1's capability. The Lancer, which can fly at 900-plus miles per hour, can hold 5,000 pounds more within the aircraft. Under Operation Inherent Resolve, the
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3,800 munitions on 3,700 targets in six months, according to the 28th Bomb Wing, Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota.

The Stratofortress, first launched in 1954, deploys regularly for exercises stateside, as well as to Europe and the Pacific.

Three B-52 bombers and more than 200 airmen
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for a military exercise, Cold Response, led by Norway. The bombers are assigned to the 2nd Bomb Wing, Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana.

In the last two years, the aircraft
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the European AOR more than a
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to train in theater security exercises in an effort to reassure allies who are increasingly worried about Russian aggression.

A singular B-52
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on January 10 after North Korea conducted an alleged hydrogen bomb test. It was joined by South Korean F-15 and U.S. F-16 fighters, and later returned to Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, after the flight.
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source:
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
Brumby said:
...

Whether it is done is your prerogative. You should note though that there are others who are as ready to called out fallacious statements.
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LOL Brumby you're relentless ... when I see on a Military Forum for example
AndrewS said:
...

Does everyone in the world deserve a chance of a middle-class existence where they are safe and no longer have to worry about abject poverty?

...
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... I'm done with the poster and whatever else (s)he says, immediately!
 
Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Brumby said:
I am surprised by the size of the Green Beret force. It is much bigger than the rest. I understand Army Rangers typically acts as the security shield for special operations but what is the primary role of the Green Berets?
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Army Special Forces get much units, 5 Special Force Groups/SFG each 1400 pers. in 4 small Bat. some years ago 3 as the 2 Reserve SFG with HQ, Support units you go for 13000 pers not surprising.

But for Delta Forces first time i see some number in fact a scoop.

160 SOAR is a amazing unit with 50 HH-47G which hace state of art EW systems etc.. almost customized, 64 MH-60M, 30+ AH-6M / MH-6M and 12 MQ-1C ! and some UH-60 modified Stealth seems.

But i think it would be wrong a too big focus for Special forces provide to her too money they are not all and conventionnal units are the more numerous and are necessary for do number.
 
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