US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

I remembered posting the story ... https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/us-military-news-thread.t1547/page-354#post-324124 ... which now approaches its end:
Air Force General Fired for A-10 ‘Treason’ Comments
The U.S. Air Force general who warned subordinates that praising the A-10 aircraft to lawmakers amounts to “treason” has been fired, the service said.

Maj. Gen. James Post has been removed from his position as the second-highest ranking officer at Air Combat Command, according to a statement released Friday by the command, which is based at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia.

The decision was made by Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, head of the command, after he reviewed an Air Force Inspector General report that concluded Post’s comments had a “chilling effect” on officers and “caused them to feel constrained from communicating with members of Congress,” the release states.

The IG hotline received an anonymous complaint that referenced a
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detailing the matter, according to the report, which was
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on the Air Force’s Freedom of Information Act website. The article was included as an exhibit in the document.

Carlisle issued a letter of reprimand to Post, who remains in the service. “General Post understands the impact of his actions and has expressed his sincere regret to me, a regret he extends to all Airmen,” Carlisle said in the release.

A spokesperson at the command wouldn’t say whether Post will seek to retire from the service.

Post made the controversial remarks while addressing a group of more than 300 airmen at a weapons and tactics review board Jan. 10 at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. He was quoted as saying, “If anyone accuses me of saying this, I will deny it … anyone who is passing information to Congress about
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capabilities is committing treason.”

The news was reported by multiple outlets, including the
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and the military blog
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.

Reaction to Post’s words was swift and critical. Lawmakers who support keeping the A-10 in the service called for an investigation and watchdog groups slammed the major general for trying to stifle dissent on an important issue — whether to retire the Cold War-era plane.

The service has proposed retiring its fleet of almost 300 of the low, slow-flying gunship over a period of five years, due in part to federal spending caps that apply to the defense budget. The divestment is estimated to save $4 billion.

The Air Force initially sought to clarify Post’s remarks. In an e-mail to Military.com, spokeswoman Maj. Genieve David said, “The intent of his comments were to communicate the Air Force’s position and decision on recommended actions and strategic choices faced for the current constrained fiscal environment.”

But the IG report determined that Post’s “choice of words had the effect of attempting to prevent some members from lawfully communicating with Congress,” which is a violation of the U.S. code and Defense Department directives, whether that was his intention or not, according to the press release.

For his part, Post apologized for the remarks.

“The objective of my comment was simply meant to focus the attention of the audience on working within the command’s constraints,” he said in a statement included in the release. “It was sincerely never my intention to discourage anyone’s access to their elected officials. I now understand how my poor choice of words may have led a few attendees to draw this conclusion and I offer my humble apology for causing any undue strain on the command and its mission.”

Post also said he understands and respects Gen. Carlisle’s decision.
source:
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
General Post said:
If anyone accuses me of saying this, I will deny it … anyone who is passing information to Congress about
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capabilities is committing treason.

What a foolish thing for an acting General to say to over 300 active US Air force personnel. Foolish to say to even a single person. when called before Congress to testify, military personnel are sworn to tell the truth.

The truth is..and everyone knows it...the A-10 is a GREAT CAS aircraft.

I guess his denials did not count for much one the IG looked into it...and now his career is completely stymied and he has been relieved.

Now...I believe the F-35 will do a good job of CAS. But it is not being built to do what the A-10 does. The A-10 has a highly armored polito "tub" and heavily built, redundant, and survivable systems for getting in really, really close to the troops...and for taking on and defeating armor up close and personal with that 30mm gatlin gun on its chin.

The F-35 will accomplish the same type of support...but it is not built at all like that.
 

strehl

Junior Member
Registered Member
show us a price list :)

I choose some IR terminal-seeker, fuze set to ... I don't know what's the delay to blast inside of an unarmored warship LOL
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EDIT
OK I'll try to guess the delay: twenty milliseconds?? (as in 9/450)


I have actually never seen anything like a consumer price list for any kind of munition. The closest I come are price references like this:

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This article (July 2014) mentions < $70K/round for Excalibur and < $15K/round for PGK. I am trying to remember where I saw the lower numbers. It might have been in "Strategypage" blog. Some people don't seem to like it (it is not set up like a discussion board).
 
What a foolish thing for an acting General to say to over 300 active US Air force personnel. ...

yes :) but look what a dumb view I found in
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If humor and the use of hyperbole can destroy a senior leader’s career (there’s so much room for discussion there…), why will they risk speaking honestly before Congress, let alone before subordinates?
(breakingdefense.com going wild LOL)
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
What a foolish thing for an acting General to say to over 300 active US Air force personnel. Foolish to say to even a single person. when called before Congress to testify, military personnel are sworn to tell the truth.

The truth is..and everyone knows it...the A-10 is a GREAT CAS aircraft.

I guess his denials did not count for much one the IG looked into it...and now his career is completely stymied and he has been relieved.

Now...I believe the F-35 will do a good job of CAS. But it is not being built to do what the A-10 does. The A-10 has a highly armored polito "tub" and heavily built, redundant, and survivable systems for getting in really, really close to the troops...and for taking on and defeating armor up close and personal with that 30mm gatlin gun on its chin.

The F-35 will accomplish the same type of support...but it is not built at all like that.

I am going to disagree with you here brother Jeff, and very strongly, no disrespect intended, but please "hear me out"

So you fellows would "cut off" a USAF General for telling his troops to suck it and get back in formation???

General Post is exactly right, the USAF cannot give the F-35 everything it NEEDS right now to get it operational, if it allows the A-10 to "bleed off assets and resources"
The A-10 is fine for engaging insurgents, and the tanks they were able to acquire, and in the fight with ISIS, it is no doubt a "God Send"!
but,,,,,,,, it is an outdated platform, it is slow, it is extremely vulnerable to the type of air defenses that have decimated the Ukrainian forces as they attempted to halt the Russian supported Rebels?
Not saying that we can't use the A-10, not saying that there will ever be an equivilant to that beautiful GAU-8 cannon, not saying that we couldn't defend the A-10 with other air assets, we can and do. But the current budget mess is forcing us to make a choice, we can maintain the A-10, 300 + A-10s were scheduled for NEW center sections, (yes, including that beautiful tub) and new wings, in order to keep them "airworthy" and bring them up to "combat readiness", and yes those mods on a per aircraft basis will likely cost as much as the A-10 did initially??? I haven't checked on it, but check it out, my hunch??

The F-35 is strategically critical for us now due to the cancelation of F-22 production, the F-35 must perform and will perform! The USAF will divest itself of the A-10, and all General Post was saying in an open forum with the troops was that we need to not cry in our beer, we are USAF, and we need to suck it up and not throw gasoline on a POLITICAL PR fire, and get the F-35 UP and RUNNING, simple as that??
Using the word "treason" as a metaphorical tool designed to make this request/demand humorous and at the same moment serious is what a motivated inspirational leader "should do"... Remember the two F-22 jocks that went on sixty minutes????

Not kool, if you don't want to fly the airplane, you can ask for something else, making it seem as if General Posts comments were anything other than what I have stated is deliberately ignoring the military culture in which it was made?? He wasn't talking to third graders at the local elementary school?? He was talking to men and women who are supposedly "warriors" and professional soldiers, if they are/were intimidated by this very benign call to suck it up and keep their formation tight, they are the ones who have no business being in the USAF.

This current "prissification" of the US military emboldens our enemies, and reveals a soft underbelly of real vulnerability, shame on the politicians that have deprived these United States of a committed, hard working soldier! How many more brave men will speak their mind, to those they are charged to lead into what will no doubt be life or death combat missions???

That is what should be "chilling", and it is, women who are in the military check their dresses and high heels at the door, this is a big-boys world, if you wanta play in the bigs, you better learn how to hit a fast ball, boys and girls this is a level playing field, the bad guys aren't gonna cut em any slack???

There's no room for PC on the battle field, and soldiers in the US military have earned our respect, but this whole mess comes back to John McCain, whom my own old man appealed to several times for help and to express concern for military issues, my Dad did not curse or call anyone names, but he did call John McCain a "loud mouth bloviator", and that is the truth.
 
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I sympathize with both practical sides of the issue but I think what was at stake was not the A-10's fate but much more importantly service members being re-assured of their rights, duties, and relationship with the military command as well as the civilian government.

These days when real extremism is widespread, the political climate so tense and divisive, with disagreements of substance within the military and issues with true leakers/traitors/attention/money-seekers and their fates, usage of the term "treason" in the context it was used by a ranking officer is a grievous error.

At the same time, Maj. Gen. Post did apologize and clarified his intent and he was meted proportionate punishment with a letter of reprimand and removal from his post. So let this be a lesson to everyone to keep their rhetoric in check and focus on cool reasoning.
 
...

General Post is exactly right, the USAF cannot give the F-35 everything it NEEDS right now to get it operational, if it allows the A-10 to "bleed off assets and resources"
...

well, there will be a period during which it seems to be better to keep the A-10s ... described in the blog
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:
Block 3F comes with some limitations to the use of the EOTS as IRST sensor; and with no video-downlink capability, which is unfortunate as in recent years this has become a key factor in providing air support to the troops on the ground, sharing imagery with the JTAC.
In defence of the F-35, it must be said that when the requirements were written and development started, the ROVER video-downlink did not exist yet. Clearly, the capability to share sensors imagery with the troops on the ground will be high on the list of priorities for development of Block IV, the software load for the 2020s. An IR pointer is also likely to be added.

At entry in service, the F-35 will be able to share targeting information through self-determined GPS position data. Not quite the same thing as having full imagery, but it should be enough of a beginning.

2018%2Bcapability.jpg
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I sympathize with both practical sides of the issue but I think what was at stake was not the A-10's fate but much more importantly service members being re-assured of their rights, duties, and relationship with the military command as well as the civilian government.

These days when real extremism is widespread, the political climate so tense and divisive, with disagreements of substance within the military and issues with true leakers/traitors/attention/money-seekers and their fates, usage of the term "treason" in the context it was used by a ranking officer is a grievous error.

At the same time, Maj. Gen. Post did apologize and clarified his intent and he was meted proportionate punishment with a letter of reprimand and removal from his post. So let this be a lesson to everyone to keep their rhetoric in check and focus on cool reasoning.

While I fully understand your point, as a Pastor when you want to communicate on a deeper level with your more immediate peers, you may use "colorful" language, in order to drive home a point, Gen Post is not, was not a tyrant. He was communicating the importance of focus, and the F-35 is going to require all our focus and resources to get it to where it needs to be???? We need those A-10 maintainers to "learn" this aircraft, if they do not its inception will continue to be "troublesome", it will lag behind, and could even at this late date be thwarted as a first tier aircraft and inherit the bad blood that killed F-22 production????

The A-10 is a very fine airplane, its legend is greater than the sum of the whole would indicate, but the A-10 has never operated in the hostile environment that we will face if we go up against a tier-1 adversary. With such a very small number of strategic bombers, much of the heavy lifting will be accomplished by F-22s and F-35s on deep strike sorties. The F-35 has the capability to operate off aircraft carriers and to be forward staged,, I can NOT over-emphasis the importance of this aircraft being brought online post-haste!
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I am going to disagree with you here brother Jeff, and very strongly, no disrespect intended, but please "hear me out"

So you fellows would "cut off" a USAF General for telling his troops to suck it and get back in formation???

General Post is exactly right, the USAF cannot give the F-35 everything it NEEDS right now to get it operational, if it allows the A-10 to "bleed off assets and resources"
The A-10 is fine for engaging insurgents, and the tanks they were able to acquire, and in the fight with ISIS, it is no doubt a "God Send"!

This current "prissification" of the US military emboldens our enemies, and reveals a soft underbelly of real vulnerability, shame on the politicians that have deprived these United States of a committed, hard working soldier!
Well, AFB, I stick by my assertion that this was foolish thing for a General to say.

My point was not about his views of the F-35, or his views of the A-10.

My point was about his telling Air Force personnel that they would be "traitors," for saying positive things about the A-10 to congress.

When those personnel...mainly officers...are called to testify before congress, they are sworn to tell the truth. To label them as "traitors," for sharing their honest thoughts to Congress about the A-10 is indeed chilling. Congress is the constitutional authority tasked with funding the military...approving of numerous military appointees...and with declaring war.

They must know the truth, and they sometimes seek it sometimes from the rank and file officers of various ranks.

For any General to tell such personnel publically that they would be considered traitors for doing so, is indeed beyond the pale.

Now, that has nothing to do with the other valid points you made about the wussification of the military, the PC nature of so many things and appointees under the current administration.

But those issues are separate and apart from what I was talking about with respect to this General's comments to active duty personnel.

And the general was appropriately relieved of command for doing so.

Now, if some individual is violating his security clearance and passing classified info to certain congress members without being called to testify and doing so for political purposes...then that would be much different. But that is not the vein his comments were given, taken in, or received.

People were testifying before congress about the A-10, and he responded in this fashion...and in fact prefaced his comments with the phrase, "If anyone accuses me of saying this, I will deny it."

It was pretty obvious that he was trying to use his position and threats to influence what officers were going to testify to before congress.

That's why he was relieved.
 
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