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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Good news stories and news sources BLUEJACKET. It's good that we read different sources for the news.

That Lt. Watada story ,or one like it has been posted. But that's ok. It is an intresting story. Personally the man is entitled to his opinion. But to me he is a coward.
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
Good news stories and news sources BLUEJACKET. It's good that we read different sources for the news.

That Lt. Watada story ,or one like it has been posted. But that's ok. It is an intresting story. Personally the man is entitled to his opinion. But to me he is a coward.

Note that he is willing to fight in Afghanistan, but not Iraq. Granted the situation appears to be somewhat more volatile in Iraq, but the fact that he's not averse to serving at all says something about his motives for doing so - in that he may truly be doing it because he believes that the Iraq war was unjust, as opposed to one that he agreed with, such as the invasion of Afghanistan.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
And he joined the army soon after 9/11/01- he knew what that meant then. I think it's courageous to think outside the box and stand up for his convictions, despite the peer pressure, brainwashing, and the UCMJ. There was also 1 sailor (and some others) on
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who refused to deploy, but he is enlisted.
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, the Pentagon is thinking big. Not just surgical strikes on the civilian nuclear energy program, but hitting virtually everything of importance in the country. The Air Force kept telling us they could bomb Vietnam into submission. They couldn't. Then it was shock and awe in Iraq. Didn't work. Just remember, it is always the Army that has to come in and clean up the mess.
[And the Navy/AF to extricate it afterwards!]
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Brainwashing? Not in the US armed service. There are no political officers like in the PLA or old Soivet Union. No one is impressed into service or forced to join. Everyone is a volunteer. Bluejacket, you say you were in the USN just what sort of brainwashing did you incurr???

I don't care what lip service he plays to the media. If he was being sent to Afghanstain he woulda protested that also. The man is a coward inmy book. Period.

As for the sailor. FTG3 Pablo Paredes. He was assigned to the USS Bonhomme Richard(LHD-6) in San Diego. He was a real consitesious objector. A real coward. Sorry guys I'm real hard core on this subject. I have no respect for those that chose to serve then change their minds like a little sissy.

FTG3 story is intresting,none the less. It occuried on Pearl Harbor day(Dec 7th) in 2004. Ironic..

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Sailor opposed to Iraq war refuses to board ship

By Rick Rogers
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
December 7, 2004

Petty Officer 3rd Class Pablo Paredes followed through on his plan: He refused to board his Navy ship yesterday morning when it sailed for Iraq with thousands of Camp Pendleton Marines.

For nearly two hours, the weapons-control technician sat on his ship's pier at the 32nd Street Naval Station. He talked with media and waited to be arrested, but the arrest didn't happen.

A Navy spokesman said Paredes, 23, wasn't taken into custody because he hadn't violated any regulations. Navy procedures stipulate that an officer can't be listed as missing until an official roll has been called aboard ship.

"Paredes is considered (to be) in an unauthorized absent status," said Cmdr. William Fenick, spokesman for the 3rd Fleet. "He is encouraged to check into any naval facility as soon as possible. Sailors have an obligation to get under way when their ships deploy, and today over 5,000 sailors and Marines met that obligation and began their deployment."

Paredes believes he wasn't detained because of the media presence. On Sunday, he had called newspapers and radio and TV stations to announce his anti-deployment intentions.

Paredes had planned to publicly throw his military I.D. into the ocean to underscore his stand against the war. But yesterday, he changed his mind after learning that he could be charged with destruction of government property.

Paredes held firm, however, when a Navy officer tried to persuade him to board the amphibious assault ship Bonhomme Richard, which transports Marines to the Middle East.

"I told him that I don't plan on getting under way, that I refuse, that I resign," Paredes said yesterday afternoon in a phone interview.

Paredes had joined the Navy in 2000. He was stationed in Japan until now, he said, and didn't think he had a direct connection to the war in Iraq.

Paredes might be the first local sailor to refuse deployment on the grounds of being philosophically opposed to the Iraq war, said Sam Samuelson, spokesman for the San Diego Naval Station.

Paredes is looking for a lawyer to represent him for free before he turns himself in to the Navy.

"I knew what was coming," Paredes said, "and now I just have to see it through."

Here's a story about him written by left leaning writer..

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celtic-dragon

New Member
I have to agree with Popeye. There has been no draft, and all of us who served took an oath to obey the lawful command of the officers over us and defend the Constitution. There wasn't anything in there about doing it when you felt like it, or when it was convenient or didn't offend your sensibilities. I have no use for Wataba, Paredes or any of their ilk. I took my oath deadly seriously, and I would put on my uniform now if it was requested of me, even though I don't particularly agree with the situation in Iraq. My country comes before my personal opinions. I doubt that the Army needs a transgendered 67V helicopter crewchief back, but I would go if asked.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
bd popeye
Brainwashing? Not in the US armed service. There are no political officers like in the PLA or old Soivet Union. No one is impressed into service or forced to join. Everyone is a volunteer. Bluejacket, you say you were in the USN just what sort of brainwashing did you incurr???
A lot of people join for the benefits and to escape the economic realities of society they can't deal with otherwise- aka "poverty draft". There was no active brainwashing in my time in the USN, but since I wasn't given the whole truth it was the passive brainwashing by the media that toes the official line most of the time. Anyone who relies only on the US media and Hollywood to shape up their worldview is in effect brainwashed without even knowing it.
Mr. Watada and others took an oath of an officer/elisted, and not as
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in the
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service - neither he nor anyone else has the duty to
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and the
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. Most of those who are in the high places never wore iniform and aren't sending their children to "defend freedom"- they've got other priorities.
From the
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you posted:
No soldier owes absolute allegiance to any military system. Once unrestrained leaders, in their arrogance and lust for power, place our military system beyond domestic and international law, the obligation of soldiers to serve the military in its state of lawlessness is dissolved. Not war protesters, but the government itself, violates the covenant between soldier and state. The obligations of the enlistment contract, which contains an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the U.S., are reciprocal.

Appealing Dissent
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Enough said!
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Good post BLUEJACKET. While I do not agree with much of what you posted I will certainly agree with your right to post.

No soldier owes absolute allegiance to any military system. Once unrestrained leaders, in their arrogance and lust for power, place our military system beyond domestic and international law, the obligation of soldiers to serve the military in its state of lawlessness is dissolved. Not war protesters, but the government itself, violates the covenant between soldier and state. The obligations of the enlistment contract, which contains an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the U.S., are reciprocal.

And that above statement is left wing dribble. That is my opinion. And like you I will leave it at that because we all are entitled to our own opinion.

celtic dragon sez;
I took my oath deadly seriously, and I would put on my uniform now if it was requested of me, even though I don't particularly agree with the situation in Iraq. My country comes before my personal opinions.

I agree. Why? "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few"(one).
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
To popeye and Celtic-dragon, I am curious to what your opinion would be if Watada had been (for example) a member of the National Guard sent to Iraq, as opposed to what he actually was. Does that make a difference?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
To popeye and Celtic-dragon, I am curious to what your opinion would be if Watada had been (for example) a member of the National Guard sent to Iraq, as opposed to what he actually was. Does that make a difference?

It makes no diffrence to me. If required to serve he should serve.

However I do not think National Guard units should be in Iraq or Afghanstain. They do not have the equipment or manpower to be there. It is not their #1 job.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
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I guess the so-called WMD in Iraq are finaly being discovered!

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If they weren't going to attack Iran, sending B-1/2/52s and extra F-15/16/18s to Diego Garsia and/or Oman would do as a show of force, for a lot less $$$ than bringing an additional CSG costs!

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