US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

RobertC

Junior Member
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I think these articles are great because they give you a sobering picture of the situation. It is going to take a long time to make changes to the US naval shipbuilding capacity. These things take time to build out and require constant support. I don't want to say it is impossible that US could see a big change in shipbuilding output, it is just that if it happens it is going to take place 10+ years from now after a lot of investment and development of talent.
And a third feature article from the Congressional Budget Office (PDF)
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Some highlights
Slide 3: The Congress has consistently appropriated more funds for shipbuilding than Administrations have requested.
Slide 10: Under its 2025 plan, the Navy would spend $190 billion on shipbuilding over the next five years. Half of that amount would go to submarines. [6% would go to Combat Logistics Support Ships and 8% would go to Other. The US Navy is a forward-deployed force requiring forward-deployed combat logistics support ... which ain't there, now or in this budget. This is recognized on Slide 11.]
Slide 14's unsurprising conclusion (same as CNO's): The Navy’s budget [ie "CNO's resources"] would need to grow significantly in real terms for the service to buy, sustain, and operate a larger fleet.
There are interesting measures of Lethality and Firepower on Slides 15 and 16. This is the first time I've seen those metrics. Sheltered life I guess.
Slide 18 is fantasy or reality depending on your perspective: The demands that the 2025 plan would place on the nation’s shipyards would be greater than those they have faced over the past decade.
As these three articles have articulated, the problems are known, the solutions are known, and spanning the gap between them is unachievable.
 

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
Registered Member
As these three articles have articulated, the problems are known, the solutions are known, and spanning the gap between them is unachievable.

Yup, without a massive increase in budget for the Navy I don't see how they can buy and maintain a bigger force. I think it is important that to note that increasing the budget simply by increasing ship orders probably wouldn't help much either. The Navy would have to use its budget not only to order more ships, but directly subsidize a large build out of the shipbuilding infrastructure.

I don't see the political will to do that.
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yup, without a massive increase in budget for the Navy I don't see how they can buy and maintain a bigger force. I think it is important that to note that increasing the budget simply by increasing ship orders probably wouldn't help much either. The Navy would have to use its budget not only to order more ships, but directly subsidize a large build out of the shipbuilding infrastructure.

I don't see the political will to do that.
There is political will for a larger navy.

But, it simply isn't strong enough to overcome the practical difficulties in the way (a lot more money needed, expanding ship yards, actually finding workers and educate them, suplly chain etc.).
 

gpt

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USN is looking at PAC-3 MSE aboard its navy vessels to defend against hypersonic maneuvering threats.
How many PAC-3 interceptors the Navy will need is uncertain, but overall demand is "through the roof"
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Article on US efforts to fix its shipbuilding industry:
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The US Navy has less ships than China's PLAN because of the failures of the LCS and Zumwalt programs.

The LCS produced a bunch of useless frigates which will be headed for the scrap heap, or any foolish US ally willing to take these crates, and the Zumwalt design was turned from the original conception of a missile arsenal ship, that would replace the Burkes, into a replacement for the Iowa class that would do shore bombardment with artillery guns due to Congressional meddling.

The US Navy basically wasted like three decades. And now they have to make do with rehashes of the Cold War era Burkes.
 

SlothmanAllen

Junior Member
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Article on US efforts to fix its shipbuilding industry:

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Any sort of significant increase is going to take decades to bear fruit. China didn't build its shipbuilding industry overnight. It has taken decades to get to the state it is in now. These things are not easy and take tons of money, politics and man power to see meaningful progress.

I posted a link to an article a while back that showed conclusively that the US was never really a major commercial shipbuilder, and even during World War 2 its yards were less efficient than those in the UK.

Any sort of solution is going to have to be two track. They need to change the laws so ships can be built in Japan and Korea while at the same time investing in building out their own shipbuilding capability. So its going to be extremely expensive. Oh, and it also has to survive changing political winds and a billion other things.

EDIT: Oh, and they are going to have to subsidize any commercial ships built in the US to to tune of billions of dollars per year due to the likely massive cost differences that exists between ships built in the US and Japan/Korea/China... and that assumes the quality can be good enough that people would even want them from US yards.

Double Edit: Also, China may have spent years supporting their industry, but as a country China likely had better incentives for people to work in shipbuilding. Shipbuilding in the US has to compete with dozens of other industries that pay just as good if not better and offer a far better work life balance.
 
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