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MwRYum

Major
What do you think about a spy baloon?
There are better platforms out there for spying, balloon isn't the ideal platform which you can't be that certain it'd eventually fly over the targeted site(s). Though of course presume that it does fly over the region, the extended "hang time" would provide more time to observe and record.

On the other hand, it can be used to test out OpFor's scramble response time with no risk to one's own asset and crew, since China still found itself making such scramble intercept on a regular basis.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
Fake photo, actually.


But fret not, we should have the real deal in a few days, perhaps during a photo-op which Joe Biden paying a visit to the F-22A squadron in question, rounding up the victory lap we witnessing now.
Hard to characterize this total shit-show as any kind of "victory" to be honest. Just to be clear, I vote Democrat down the ticket, but the coverage and response to the so-called "spy balloon" has been absolutely embarrassing.
 

Lethe

Captain
With modern knowledge of meteorology (both peacetime global monitoring system and national space-based monitoring), there was no 'if' - they could know where and when it'll go. Moreover, it's quite steerable - both globally (chose the necessary stratical layer with the necessary wind direction) and locally (it has a certain amount of power from those huge solar batteries - and thus expecting at least some propulsion capability is due).

Moreover, those ballons are actually remarkably cheap to make and launch - those can be launched in thousands for no economic strain - and, thanks to lower altitudes, comparatively negligible drift(compared to satellites), and extended time over the target - even cheap recon payloads (optical, SIGINT) will be able to both get higher resolutions/amounts of data than ludicrously expensive satellites, and look underneath the anti-satellite roofs&covers. Exposition angles matter.

Potentially there is even the capability to release sneaky secondary gliders...or other gliding payloads, if one doesn't think that was serious enough. Bomber balloon may sound jokes and fun compared to a billion USD apiece stealth bomber ... until the world's most powerful military can't really do sh...t about it.

Overall, I am personally of opinion that (1)the thing is likely genuine, and (2)it appears to be the single loudest failure of US continental defenses since 2001. A thunderous slap in the face, all the more loud, because for 1960-80s NORAD it would've been a piece of cake mission.

I think that it was likely a surveillance platform, but I am less convinced that its path across CONUS was intended. Limited steering capacity does not preclude some kind of systems failure or malfunction (as claimed) or those limited steering capacities being overwhelmed by unexpected local conditions.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
With modern knowledge of meteorology (both peacetime global monitoring system and national space-based monitoring), there was no 'if' - they could know where and when it'll go. Moreover, it's quite steerable - both globally (chose the necessary stratical layer with the necessary wind direction) and locally (it has a certain amount of power from those huge solar batteries - and thus expecting at least some propulsion capability is due).

Unlike ww2 Japanese balloons, which could rely only on fragmented weather science and mechanical time fuzing - here it's stupidly simple to make the thing satellite-controlled (and also upload everything it collects in real time).

Moreover, those ballons are actually remarkably cheap to make and launch - those can be launched in thousands for no economic strain - and, thanks to lower altitudes, comparatively negligible drift(compared to satellites), and extended time over the target - even cheap recon payloads (optical, SIGINT) will be able to both get higher resolutions/amounts of data than ludicrously expensive satellites, and look underneath the anti-satellite roofs&covers. Exposition angles matter.

Potentially there is even the capability to release sneaky secondary gliders...or other gliding payloads, if one doesn't think that was serious enough. Bomber balloon may sound jokes and fun compared to a billion USD apiece stealth bomber ... until the world's most powerful military can't really do sh...t about it.

Overall, I am personally of opinion that (1)the thing is likely genuine, and (2)it appears to be the single loudest failure of US continental defenses since 2001. A thunderous slap in the face, all the more loud, because for 1960-80s NORAD it would've been a piece of cake mission.

p.s. at least watching self-calming by Twitter netizens was fun.
What's the advantage of using balloon technology over a drone?

A small high altitude drone can do all of that, and not get detected. If they aren't picking up giant balloons you can bet they won't spot a commercial sized drone.

It certainly is plausible that a balloon could be controlled, but again, why bother when a drone is much quicker and more controllable?

Once the balloon has flown over nuclear sites and taken it's photos and sent data what would be the plan? How would it get back to China? Sooner or later it would have been discovered.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
What's the advantage of using balloon technology over a drone?
Lighter than aircraft stand in the air by Archimedes' law, i.e. for free. That makes them stupidly cheap for strategic reconnaissance systems - just spam more. Also it uses different industries from planes.

If they aren't picking up giant balloons you can bet they won't spot a commercial sized drone.
Commercial drone won't reach US by itself - it's either something pretty big, vulnerable and war-starting, or "pseudo satellite"(those stratospheric solar-powered ones - which are more or less the same, but with less payload), or something which was launched within the US(different niche - balloon itself can carry those).

How would it get back to China?
Just forget about it - it's expendable the same way satellites are. Just cheaper.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Lighter than aircraft stand in the air by Archimedes' law, i.e. for free. That makes them stupidly cheap for strategic reconnaissance systems - just spam more. Also it uses different industries from planes.
That would only apply to the generation of lift. You still need to expend a lot of energy getting it across the Pacific. Winged flight is a very efficient way of transportation - there's a reason why airships went out of favour.

The shape of the balloon doesn't suggest it was designed to manoeuvre either. It's not oblong shaped like you see with airships, you don't see any fins or other control surfaces in any of the released pictures. Instead the balloon was a giant sphere, the most efficient size to go up.

Cost isn't much of an argument for deployment of balloons v drones. Both are ridiculously cheap for what they can accomplish.
Commercial drone won't reach US by itself - it's either something pretty big, vulnerable and war-starting, or "pseudo satellite"(those stratospheric solar-powered ones - which are more or less the same, but with less payload), or something which was launched within the US(different niche - balloon itself can carry those).
Drones can easily make the distance to America if it's a one way mission. To reduce the fuel, payload and overall size requirement they could plausibly be launched from the middle of the Pacific and America wouldn't know any better than if they were from China.

But even a bigger HALE launched from China is going to be significantly smaller than a balloon.
Just forget about it - it's expendable the same way satellites are. Just cheaper.
Being expendable wasn't the point. If it lands in America it'll be discovered eventually. Was that part of the plan?
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think people are underselling balloons a bit, there is actually a few advantages for balloons over satellites that aren't listed above:

1. They are harder to detect since they fly extremely slowly, at a altitude too low for satellites and too high for aircraft and the material of the balloon itself could be transparent to radars.

2. Compared to satellites they have practically unlimited loiter time, once on target you do not need to wait for the satellite to come back around to get another look, a balloon with a battery bank and solar has theorietical unlimited endurance.

3. Difficult to attribute until shootdown, practically one could launch balloons anywhere from some deserted island to a random ship in the middle of the Sea. It's neither easy to stop the launches nor easy to tell exactly where it came from, Plausible deniability.
 
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