US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Whatever the case the Aircraft fell due to a combination of a smart AA commander, ineptitude of mission planning, Dumb luck of a door failure and poor weather at the SEAD base, and the aircraft lacking Radar warning/missile warning countermeasures. Something more modern aircraft would have from day one. Farther the B21 is likely to be far more networked than B2 ever could have been. Making it about as much a hot rodded B2 as a comparison between a modern IPhone and a Brick cell phone of the 1980s.

seems like F-35 is getting a new radar. Previously thought to be a typo but it's showing up in more documents and no one has said anything about it yet.

New OTH radar in Palau to track ships/aircraft headed past the first Island chain into the wider Pacific or toward Guam. Might also be covering the SCS

Significant money and resources are going into equipping Guam with substantial AEGIS capabilities.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Whatever the case the Aircraft fell due to a combination of a smart AA commander, ineptitude of mission planning, Dumb luck of a door failure and poor weather at the SEAD base, and the aircraft lacking Radar warning/missile warning countermeasures. Something more modern aircraft would have from day one. Farther the B21 is likely to be far more networked than B2 ever could have been. Making it about as much a hot rodded B2 as a comparison between a modern IPhone and a Brick cell phone of the 1980s.

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You're missing his point. The F-117 was shot down because at the time the USAF felt its stealth capabilities meant it could operate in Serbian skies with impunity, when it clearly couldn't. The Serbs found a radar wavelength that could detect it and the rest is history.

The same thing could happen with any iteration of stealth, be it American, Chinese or Russian. No matter what stealth is deployed it will always be detectable by some wavelengths, even if it is thermal, optical, etc. All an enemy needs to do is adapt to the new technology which in all of happens eventually.

Talking about how amazing the B21s stealth is and how much better it is to the F-117 will only lead to the same hubris that existed before the F-117.

Talking about how quickly the B21 came out is also American arrogance. They've unveiled a non flying model to the public. It's still years away from being deployed. It may well be made of plywood like the Russian and Iranian stealth planes.

If anything the opposite is true. Planes take longer to induct now, look at the F-22, F-35. While CAD and computer modelling has improved, planes have become a lot more complex. A lot of the new technologies involved aren't suitable for production line manufacturing and assembly, so they still need to be manufactured by hand.

Funding is also a much bigger problem. In WW2 you had planes being deployed within a year of them being on the drawing board.

Abominable said:

Talking about how quickly the B21 came out is also American arrogance. They've unveiled a non flying model to the public. It's still years away from being deployed. It may well be made of plywood like the Russian and Iranian stealth planes.

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While I think Northrop would not do something like that, it would not be the first time an American company did this. One good example is Boeing's unveiling of the 787 prototype. Which was basically a hastily put together empty shell with the engines dangling from it. The notion of "fake it until you make it" is quite an American concept actually. For all we know the B-21 prototype could be about as final as the Su-75 Checkmate prototype the Russians have been parading.

@Abominable No I get the point in fact I am the one making it!
Additionally though the prototype in question has not begun flights comparing it to the Iranian is your own bias. The US has a long track record of making good. The first flight of B21 is slated in the next few months. Where the Iranians track record is to show off some wiz bang then put it in a museum. Their aircraft development has been farcical. Comparison the SU75 or the Q313 is idiotic. Especially when the roll out was less than a month ago.

The F117 lacked any ability to detect that it was under threat. More modern stealth aircraft can. The F35 and F22, B21 will have a full electric warfare system and fully integrated radar warning systems, missile launch detection, countermeasures. This combined with their VLO designs makes them far more survivable. It was known as far back as the F117 that VLO isn’t invisibility it’s camouflage for the electromagnetic spectrum. Like camouflage it’s optimized for set distances and frequencies. Some have tried to claim that older frequencies can detect VLO designs, it’s true they can but the resolution is poor and it can’t complete a kill chain. The Serb case was the exception that proved the rule. A combination of factors had to play in exactly the right way for the single shoot down.
The Serb commander achieved his kill due to the F117’s escorting EA6 having not launched allowing him to remain actively emitting without fear of literal HARM.
the Serb Commander had to be placed in line of flight as he was only able to launch his attack at a distance of less than a dozen miles from the target, And only then as the F117’s bomb bay door had jammed open. In past attempts he had detected the F117 but couldn’t establish a lock.

Next we are talking beyond CAD. Cad is simply how the aircraft is built not the stresses and conditions it will operate under. Today computer simulations are operating at a level far beyond that allowing rapid acceleration of the testing and life cycle without much of the needs of old school ground testing. Even 787 was built before digital twinning was matured. Look around we have advanced Drone technologies rapidly moving from concept to prototype to production across the world this happened as the test protocols have transformed from being iron bird testing to computer based. The safety has improved significantly too. The only limitations on these are tool up times and resource constraints. Both NG has had time to sort.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

@Abominable No I get the point in fact I am the one making it!
Additionally though the prototype in question has not begun flights comparing it to the Iranian is your own bias. The US has a long track record of making good. The first flight of B21 is slated in the next few months. Where the Iranians track record is to show off some wiz bang then put it in a museum. Their aircraft development has been farcical. Comparison the SU75 or the Q313 is idiotic. Especially when the roll out was less than a month ago.

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America has a better track record than Iran and modern Russia, I'll grant that. But that is not much of a high benchmark to set yourself. Both the F-35 and F-22 projects were beset with delays and teething problems. In the case of the latter they had to abandon it because "they forgot how to make them" apparently.

America does make things right sometimes, but I don't see the justification for congratulatory back patting over a plane that hasn't even flown yet.

The unveiling was just a way to let the American public to get a glimpse of what the MIC have been doing with billions of tax dollars. It shouldn't be taken as a milestone of progress.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The F117 lacked any ability to detect that it was under threat. More modern stealth aircraft can. The F35 and F22, B21 will have a full electric warfare system and fully integrated radar warning systems, missile launch detection, countermeasures. This combined with their VLO designs makes them far more survivable. It was known as far back as the F117 that VLO isn’t invisibility it’s camouflage for the electromagnetic spectrum. Like camouflage it’s optimized for set distances and frequencies. Some have tried to claim that older frequencies can detect VLO designs, it’s true they can but the resolution is poor and it can’t complete a kill chain. The Serb case was the exception that proved the rule. A combination of factors had to play in exactly the right way for the single shoot down.

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Most of the technologies you mention to are unrelated to STEALTH, i.e. the ability of the defender to detect an intruder.

The primary reason the F-117 was shot down was because it was detected. Other factors/errors may have made it easier but that's neither here nor there, war is messy and doesn't always go to plan. The pilot flew over Serbia did so with the assumption he wouldn't be seen. Stealth technology has improved since the F-117 days but for every new technology eventually a countermeasure emerges.

Not much more for me to say on this than I hope the US military thinks the same way as you do. As they say, pride comes before a fall.

gelgoog said:

While I think Northrop would not do something like that, it would not be the first time an American company did this. One good example is Boeing's unveiling of the 787 prototype. Which was basically a hastily put together empty shell with the engines dangling from it. The notion of "fake it until you make it" is quite an American concept actually. For all we know the B-21 prototype could be about as final as the Su-75 Checkmate prototype the Russians have been parading.

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The American mindset affects all aspects of their society. I don't know why you think Northrop are the exception, they have the same stakeholders who need to hear good news just like Boeing.

sevrent said:

seems like F-35 is getting a new radar. Previously thought to be a typo but it's showing up in more documents and no one has said anything about it yet. View attachment 104053

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Confirmed by The War Zone who reached out to the Joint Program Office (JPO). No details on capability yet, but I am guessing it will probably be significantly upgraded over current radar. Also, getting new panoramic displays (before the radar) along with a host of other upgrades as part of Technology Refresh 3.