Ukrainian War Developments

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Prophecy.
Yeah. I posted that video here. The complete one on YouTube not the snippet on Twitter. Before the conflict started.

I posted a link to a PDF with the Melian Dialogue written by Thucydides. When these pre-war talks were happening.
You should also watch the links to YouTube videos I put on this thread where Scott Ritter is talking. He knows this stuff really well.
It should give you a good idea of the game plan of the US with regards to Ukraine and how we got here.

Putin made an unnecessary mistake and he has inadvertently united a fractured west. And I'm sure the planners in Beijing are anxiously looking at this war because Putin has also inadvertently given hope to the Taiwanese. Samson vs Goliath...
The West was not "fractured". They prattled while Trump did his wild west act of shooting on all sides. They had some bickering then fell into line two years after that. When Biden and the new German government with the Greens got into power it all fell into place.
The proof of this is obvious. EU not signing trade deal with China. NordStream 2. EU did not bother to convince Ukraine into fulfilling Minsk 2. EU is largest donor of aid to Ukraine after Ukraine cut most of their trade with Russia post 2014. EU had all the levers at their disposal and then some. Look at how Biden got Ukraine to do its bidding by threatening to withdraw IMF loan.

Status quo was the best option. Putin broke that and now he gets to sit on the burn marks.
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Now with the UK out of the EU, the pro Europe-Russia faction was dominating until Putin squandered this goodwill away with this stupid war. He has allowed the US to come back and reinstate the cold war trans-Atlantic alliance again within the span of a week. Germany and France can't stop this process. As a matter of fact, Germany is now fully back in the US-EU alliance.
Yet Germany never totally left this alliance? Remember Angela Merkel almost supplicant to Trump that the US would not take its troops out of Germany? Do you think that is how a major power would act? Germany knows its power is all economic. They dismantled their conventional army. Their nuclear deterrent uses US weapons. It would mean their subordination to France and they were not ready to accept it. Not when they think they are winning it all economically. Jacques Chirac and Helmut Kohl would have just told Trump to f off.
Japan is in a much similar position to Germany where they cannot have an independent foreign policy. And worse they have no local allies to form a defensive block in Asia that would stand on its own. They had a plan in 1980/90s to fund investments all over Asia. But then their economy collapsed and they focused inward. The UK leaving the EU is immaterial to Atlanticist efforts since the Balts, Poland, etc are perfect spoilers on their own. They will never allow the EU to have good relations with Russia. They cancelled visa free travel for Russian citizens to the EU before 2014 even happened because of them for example. This caused EU to lose massive tourism revenues.

It was Von der Leyen today who said that Ukraine is "one of us" and welcome in the EU. That should make you think.
You can ask Erdogan what he thinks of that woman.

France and Germany were never going to allow Ukraine into the EU let alone NATO. No matter how much the Ukrainians begged for it.
I would not bet on it. Cyprus is claimed by both Turkey and Greece. It was invaded by Turkey, I think in the 1970s, and is in the EU.
Letting Ukraine into EU is dangerous for Russia because the treaty includes a mutual defense clause and there are NATO countries in it.

Actually it was the Germans who wanted to integrate Russia into Europe / EU and the French who secretly hate the Americans (and anyone/anything else not French) but the rest is solid enough.
Merkel told Putin that Russia was "too big" to be in the EU when he asked for it.

But even if Russia was kicked out of the UN, what difference does it make? The UN just becomes a glorified council of Europe based in New York. America has shown it is prepared to invade countries with or without UN authorisation. Getting authorisation to do so without Russia and China would just make it a priests blessing.
There is a chance the UN will lose its relevance in favor of regional power structures like the African Union and SCO.

I don't know about annexing the West permanently. That's messy. Could lead to insurgency issues and NATO using that to tie down Russian forces there permanently. I hope they just establish indirect control and get out, otherwise it's just... messy.
I can speculate however that if the Russians decide to occupy eastern Ukraine for the foreseeable future there will more than likely be a violent Ukrainian lead insurrection against the Russians which will most likely receive funding and training from the CIA.
It if was me I would do like the Israelis do with Lebanon. I would cordon the West off and regularly bomb it into submission.
It is going to be used as spawn pool for an insurgency. In fact the US did just that in the late 1940s when it armed insurgents in Ukraine. This resulted, I think, in 20,000 Soviet servicemen dead, and 200,000 Ukrainians over many years. This conflict is little talked about. Nikita Khrushchev was the First Secretary of Ukraine and Stalin was leader of the USSR. And it was all funded by the CIA using an infiltrated agent network originally created by the Nazis in WW2 chock full of Banderite Nazis. The US only stopped funding this network in 1990. Watch Scott Ritter on this.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Agreed. Minimum should be Eastern Ukraine but I would add to that, all the coastal areas in order to get a direct land border access with Romania and Moldova. Russia isn't interested in Romania, but it definetely is on Moldova
Moldova can become the next Ukraine situation so it is important to have access to it
For Western Ukraine, Russia's maximalist demand would be demilitarization and non-alignment/neutral status. Depending on Russia's "position of strength" at the time of negotiations it can lower its demands
Stalin crafted Soviet borders to be against natural barriers. So yes ex-USSR Moldova should remain neutral. Russian agreement with Moldova to have Russian peacekeepers in Transnistria expires next year. If I was them I would extend this deal or just give up on Transnistria.

That Lukasenko presentation about the activity was very interesting.
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Now, if we check on the Google earth the 1000 km distance from Moscow
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Anything outside the circle needs 10 minutes of flight time to reach moscow.
And the countries detailed in lukasenko presentation the ones are within the circle.
Finland - neutral, without USA units, the three baltic state, and Poland.
Like I said here before. This is essentially a repeat of the Winter War against Finland. Stalin wanted Leningrad (i.e. St. Petersburg) to be outside artillery range from Finland. He tried to negotiate land swaps with Finland to do this. Negotiations failed. And we got the Winter War. Then the Continuation War. Russians have deep historic memory. Not quite as far as Chinese but long enough.

I whole heartedly believe that to be untrue, Zelenskyy does not wish to see the streets littered with his dead countrymen, that statement in itself is very idiotic knowing that NATO will never directly intervene on Ukraines behalf.
Zelenskyy is a mouth piece for the people who really are in power. He had a lot of promises in his campaign like peaceful end to the conflict in Donbass which led to his election. When the sitting government didn't even allow him to enter his office or his deputies to enter the assembly. He cooled off for two weeks in vacation in Turkey. Then he had an office but no one would follow his orders. He tried to remodel the security personnel leadership yet they remained there. He just acquiesced to the situation that he is a puppet and this is what you got.

Slowly and surely people would realize that the US companies can't be relied upon.
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Oh dear Boeing. What about your design center in Moscow where your technical staff is? You outsourced your software to India and your aircraft design to Russia. China needs to make a CR929 recruitment office close to Boeing operations in Moscow.
Then there is the aluminum and titanium they import from Russia. You can also kiss that goodbye.

Once again you aren’t supporting that the invasion is justified. Ukraine and Russia could have solved things diplomatically;
Did you even follow the "negotiations"? Not just the ones past week, but the ones in 2014, and 2015?

However I will maintain and support the fact that the Russian invasion is not only unjustified and unlawful but it is causing more harm to Russian hegemony and sphere of influence than it is benefitting from it.
You must have forgotten the coup attempts in Belarus and Kazakhstan already. And the one in 2014 in Ukraine. The US wanted to push Russia into a quagmire and fracture it.
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
Map of the war from a Russian Telegram group. Believe it if you want. The battle lines are still contested. If the Russians can secure them, there would be a Cauldron in Eastern Ukraine, and Kiev would be completely surrounded.

View attachment 84169
Like what me and some others think here, they too think there's a giant pocket in Eastern Ukraine with something like more than half of their entire ground forces trapped within. We just need to see that photo of two people hugging in front of a Z vehicle and a V vehicle.
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
China mediate ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia.....Why should China get involved in this shit? China will get smeared by West anyways and any talk of "Putin cool it" will be interpreted as "slight" or "betrayal" by Putin, so what is the point of getting involved? China should stay out of this giant clusterfck.
Any cease fire talk should be postponed for weeks later. A too early cease fire is a contra-effective, a total waste and clear win for the 2014-coup-installed regime.

There should be allowed some more time perhaps a couple of weeks for Russian force to exterminate the Nazi Azov battalion before any cease fire can be established.

Meanwhile, just take your pop corns and beers to watch the fireworks.... all talks about cease fire is simply advancing the NATO propaganda, we should drop such premature notion! Unless a total capitulation by the Kiev regime, you don't postpone the smackdowns at this stage after all the efforts, preparations and costs! You don't stop your jobs semi-finished and let new problem grows again there over time! Principally Russia should not stop before flattening the Nazi Azov and other hardliner military force -- must dissolve all such forces -- thus full demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine as well as toppling down the current regime!

The two keywords are telling us anything less mentioned. Russia must also safe guard the new political entity established in any remaining Ukraine entity in future, if the concept of Ukraine still exists and stays relevant, at this point of time I am not quite sure if Ukraine will still last, but for sure it won't have the shape & borders like the one prior to the 24 Feb 2022 action! Some idea is to keep Ukraine as a friendly Slavic land for good yet Donbass remains governed separately! It may also be possible to let Poland absorb its former 8 provinces (prior to 1939 -- the YELLOW area) in the so-called western Ukraine and deal with the hardliner inhabitants there. Let Poles deal with whatever Nazi / Banderas / Right Sectors left over in the western part (in yellow color).

Language map from Dimitry Orlov the
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:

LANGUAGE MAP in Ukraine.png
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Please note video at 0.22 seconds.

Chinese Embassy not only evacuating Chinese nationals, but also their "Anglo-discriminated" Indian neighbor. Note the Indian flag in one of the evacuees in the video at 0.22 secs.

That's exactly how a global power should behave, well done China. :cool:



If I were China I would also help evacuate the Africans, the Pakistanis, the Arabs, the Filipinos and other Asians.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
I think many doesn't realise the extent of damage the USA caused for itself.

At the moment, due to all of the warmongering news the population back in eastern europe in panic mode.

I had my whole family wish to move over to me.

Do you think the 70 MIG from EE was canceled beacuase of the USA pressure ?

NO, reason is the countries and the population realised they need those equipment to protect themselves, and the USA worth nothing to help them in the time of need.

The USA and NATO failed to prevent a war in Europe - it makes them completly useless.


And the biggest failure is to nationalise the money/properties of the Russians.

The failure of the communist was the confiscation of goods .

If you can't consider your money in the USA bank safe then what is the whole purpose to put it there in first place ?
Why seek cooperation with the USA, and accept the money sent by the CIA ?

Why do things that the USA require?
 
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