Ukrainian War Developments

Told ya.

Helius said:

You said it yourself, Putin demands a binding written agreement that ensures Ukraine's neutrality.

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You said: "Ukraine declare neutrality"

Helius said:

So you think if Ukraine had declared herself neutral and pledged never to join NATO, and addressed the different ethnicities living in the country as a multi-ethnic state like China, Russia, the US and pretty much all of Europe including Western Europe, Putin would've invaded anyway?

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Anyone can unilaterally "declared herself neutral" just like Switzerland or Finland without a legally-binding treaty. Swiss neutrality is self-declared, but doesn't require two-party signature.... whereas a "Non-Aggression Pact" requires two-party signatures.

Helius said:

The very nature of a neutrality pact is that it binds both parties. This has never been an issue of dispute for Putin.

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I think you mean a "Non-Aggression Pact"? Declaring neutrality does not require two-party signature, see Swiss neutrality or Finnish neutrality.

Helius said:

In case you forget, it takes two to sign a treaty, so Russia would also be bound to not engage in acts that violates Ukraine's neutrality and likewise for Ukraine to not harm or allow itself to be used to harm Russian interests, which has always been Putin's position, which incidentally makes your questioning of what assurances Russia would give to Ukraine's security seem odd, since that would be a non-issue with a neutrality pact as explained.

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....because a 'Non-Aggression pact' is different from a 'Neutrality pact'?

They posit that a non-aggression pact includes the promise not to attack the other pact signatories, whereas a neutrality pact includes a promise to avoid support of any entity that acts against the interests of any of the pact signatories.

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So it doesn't appear a Neutrality pact has the same intended effect as a Non-Aggression Pact which promises to not infringe upon your sovereignty. A Neutrality pact just says I will not join anti-Russia forces, but doesn't guarantee Russia won't attack you.

The lack of any concerted and focused armored response, by Ukraine, on any front, and despite the obvious risks is still surprising, to me.

Not soliciting any explanations, thank you!

Any idea what weapons system this belongs too?

Bellum_Romanum said:

LOL we're going back all the way to the 1969 SINO-SOVIET border war now? How about the Korean War then buddy. I don't understand your purpose here other than maybe you're unhappy that Russian invasion isn't being condemned or something here and that we're not sounding like yet another Reddit subs, Twitter, FB, and hosts of American led social media sites that are pretty much full on anti-Putin, anti-Russia mode right now.

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At this age of blatant and increasing hostilities towards China that initiated by both parties in US. A new cold war if you will. I now dun trust anyone sowing discord between china and Russia. Sounds too much like that silly US state department agent. The Anglo alliance have everything to gain but china with alot to lose.

Maikeru said:

The last 2 times the PLA traded shots was not with USA or Japan but with their ideological companions in VietNam and USSR. Just be aware of that before you join the Putinista cheering squad. Global politics can change on a dime and for all you know PLA will be fighting Russia with USA support next month. Unlikely - but not impossible.

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If this thread is any indicator, it could be tonight!

gelgoog said:

The whole thing is a ruse so the Ukrainian Army in the East will get into the open ground to reinforce Kiev.
Zelensky is such an idiot he already ordered them back to Kiev.
Had he not the campaign would take longer. The Russians already planned for that contingency which is why we saw the TOS Burantino and BM-30 Smerch moving a couple hours back. It is going to be a massacre.

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Lol what? When did Zelensky order that?

meckhardt98 said:

Any idea what weapons system this belongs too?View attachment 83817

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Looks like a Tochka-U booster.

meckhardt98 said:

Most likely a localized occurrence as opposed to a national occurrence.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1497794651432042505

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People do that here for fun!

Phead128 said:

You said: "Ukraine declare neutrality"

This is different from a "Non-Aggression Pact" which takes two parties to sign. Anyone can unilaterally "declared herself neutral" just like Switzerland or Finland without a legally-binding treaty. Swiss neutrality is self-declared, but doesn't require two-party signature.... whereas a "Non-Aggression Pact" requires two-party signatures.


I think you mean a "Non-Aggression Pact"? Declaring neutrality does not require two-party signature, see Swiss neutrality or Finnish neutrality. I've never heard of a 'Neutrality Pact' between nations.

....because a 'Non-aggression pact' is different from a 'neutrality pact'?

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Swiss neutrality was codified by the Congress of Vienna that was signed by Austria, France, Britain, Prussia and Russia that guaranteed Switzerland's permanent neutrality;

Finland's neutrality was signed between herself and the USSR in the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance, which guaranteed exactly what I said about not allowing each other to join military pacts and attack each other.