Ukrainian War Developments

Status
Not open for further replies.

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Here's an article by a Lithuanian (who grew up in the USSR), which contends, in effect, that Russians are barbarous
because they really are not European, even though sometimes they may pretend to be 'civilized' Europeans.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"We saw this coming: For Russia's neighbors, Putin's brutal invasion came as no surprise
For Lithuanians like me, raised on Russian propaganda, all of this was expected. The West didn't want to listen."
--
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(9 April 2022)

"For Lithuanians or Poles, Russia's invasion of Ukraine did not come as a shock. It was always plausible — for more than a decade,
Russia has rehearsed attacks on its neighbors during military exercises, going as far as a simulated "cut-off" of the Baltic states from
the EU or simulated nuclear strikes on Warsaw or Berlin. As I write, children are dying, Ukrainian women and girls are being raped by
Russian soldiers, civilians are shot in the back; schools, hospitals and UNESCO-protected cathedrals are being carpet-bombed.
The death and deportation lists for thousands of Ukrainians have reportedly been drawn up, just as they were under Stalin and Hitler."

"We constantly tried to forewarn our partners — but for the most part, they thought it was an exaggeration, an example of
Russophobia. No, it was simply our fluency in their language; it was expertise and Russo-realism.

Why are so few willing to listen to this expertise? Even now, priority is given to those few Russian intellectuals who beg us not to
equate all Russians with Vladimir Putin, asking us to remember Russia's contributions to world culture. I hear their cries of despair,
but how are they constructive or relevant now? We already know, from the insights of Alphonse de Custine to André Gide to
Orlando Figes, that throughout the ages the main preoccupation of Russian intellectuals has been "What will the world think about
us? Won't the greatness of our cultural façade be diminished?" — and never mind the massacre of Ukrainian innocents."

"I feel that a cultural translation is required, as the Russian intellectuals cannot be impartial and the Western critics often lack
basic comprehension of Russian culture and language.

The latter, arguing that what is happening now is Russia's reaction to NATO expansion, are in fact supporting Putin's mindset:
There is no rule of law, no democracy and no national sovereignty; no results of national referendums are valid; the world is
just a cake to be sliced by those who happen to hold a knife."

"The main mistake made by Western countries was to accept the illusion that Russia is a part of European civilization.
This reflects Russia's capability to look like a simulacrum of European culture and to imitate its aesthetic shell while retaining
an entirely different content, often opposite to Western values."

My comment: 'The Russians are truly Asiatics' meme.

"The Russian state has historically never had a politically pluralist society nor any meaningful degree of self-governance, not even
on a low level, such as municipal or academic autonomy. It has always been a pyramid of power, enforced with violence, subjugating
its people into blind obedience. Even the notion of time in the Russian culture is different to the Western conception. It is cyclical, not
linear: Russians perceive that history is bound to repeat itself; it is predestined, and does not depend on individual human actions.
In this context, the human being is perceived as a tool, capable only of suffering; Russian culture has always glorified passive suffering (not proactive acts of kindness) as the warranty of "spirituality." Individuality and initiative were always persecuted, because
"vsiakaya vlast' — ot Boga." ("All worldly authority is from God.")"

"For decades now, Russian media has been feeding its public a stream of propaganda about their major enemy, the "rotten West"
(that's you and me) and the "aggressive Natovtsy" (i.e., NATO). The narrative repeated on a daily basis in Russia is about failing
Western societies, full of fascists and "perverts," largely meaning gays and lesbians. (They have even coined the Russian neologisms
"Gayrope" for Europe and "Liberasty," as in "pederasty," to describe liberal democracy.)

According to Russian propaganda, the nation's mission is to "liberate" Europe. We saw this all already with the "liberation" of the Baltic
countries during World War II. Millions of German women and girls were "liberated" by Russians in 1945, raped on their own soil."

Soviet soldiers (not only Russians, including Ukrainians) also raped many non-German women and girls.
Soviet war crimes were not committed by Russians alone.

"Current public opinion polls show that this view of "aggressive" NATO, the "rotten West" and the need to "liberate" Ukraine
is supported by approximately 70% of Russian citizens. Actively or passively, they are enabling what is happening."

"I had the Soviet school experience myself, and remember the content of the textbooks written to brainwash generations into
becoming uncritical cannon fodder for the fight with the rotten, capitalist West."

"Those in the West who go on and on about the need to support Russian society with "democratic change" or a "new Marshall plan"
do not understand one crucial fact: There is no critical mass in Russian society who want to implement it. It is impossible to import
democracy if 70% of Russians see it as an evil from the West.

As their neighbors, we know the Russian mentality and our advice is simple: Be fearless. Each Western appeasement toward Russia,
each silence, each closing of the eyes is treated as a sign of weakness, and Russians never respect weakness. They are not pragmatic
and do not mind self-inflicted wounds if they believe there is a higher goal."

"Let us do everything to help Ukraine win: On Ukraine's land and with Ukrainian blood, the battle for Western civilization is now
being fought."

Both Russia and Ukrainian are successor states to the USSR and inherited Soviet traditions.
In my view, it's an exaggeration (at best) for the author to portray the Ukrainians as 'good civilized Europeans' and
the Russians as 'evil barbarous Asiatics' (n effect).
This is 100% racism. Why is this shit allowed to be posted.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Exactly! None at medium and higher altitude means that they are NOT even really threatened by potent medium to long range anti-air missiles systems. Why do they even need to do this much low altitude flights, if they are not threatened by potent medium to long range anti-air missiles systems?
it means they have either destroyed medium range SAMs or EW can deal with it.
The rest is just tactics. Ka-52/Su-25SM3 may not have range or loiter time to reach certain targets so definitely need other fighters. its not big risk in overall context.
Well, whatever the Su-34 and other flankers are doing, it doesn't look at it's enough.
what is the measurement standard that it is not enough?.
Of course they can't do much, but the very fact that the UK all of a sudden dared to ship in Anti-ship missile to Odessa means that they are not emboldened by the abysmal VKS performance.
Actually Russian will welcome what ever help Europe can give. so that Ukranians know rest of there life thats all they got. it also give operational experience against modern systems.
Russia MIC still follow the same old habit of USSR strategic planning and MIC. But the two countries has entirely different capabilities, wealth, external condition and threats. What works for the USSR might not work for Russia. If it were the USSR, I believe they could easily field 1500 to 2500 flankers. If that's the case, having 4 or 5 different flanker variants makes sense.
Soviet was too dysfunctional to generate efficiencies in aviation production. they certainly not known for quality and long term service. so i am not sure why you think they following USSR logic when end product may look alike but fundamentally engineered differently.


Sure, they can certainly function differently on the battle field and training. But It would certainly be a good idea to at least limit the variants to Su-35 (and Su-30SM2) and Su-34. Having the Su-35 and the Su-30SM2 share the same avionics and engine is a very good idea, which Russia is already on track to do.


Whatever happens, it would be a good idea to have a future VKS's heavy twin engine fighter-bomber fleet, at some point be consist of only:
Su-57 (100 ~ 200)
Su-35 and Su-30SM2 (sharing same engine and avionics) (~400+)
Su-34 (~200+)

That would be pretty decent.
that should be sufficient as there will be more investments into drones and bombers.
I am not sure whether the Su-25SM3 route is right answer for the future....
BTW, will it ever get a turbofan engine?

That's just a crazy idea....

There is no Drone fielded yet that has characteristics and flexibility provided by Su-25SM3.
This years of training and moving among airbases was done in South. so there is more success in South. Crimea size land area was captured within few days. there was no this scale of training done in Belarus. so it is highly likely that was diversion tactic.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
The Pentagon is advising Zelensky to withdraw the 100k Ukrainian forces in the Donbas to the cities. I doubt it’ll happen as if they move they would get bombed by Russian assets.

“The Pentagon recommends Zelensky to withdraw troops from the eastern front

This is reported by TG channels close to the Zelensky administration. This is the second such recommendation in the last 2 weeks.



"It is recommended to withdraw the troops to the second defensive redoubt in order to use large cities as fortresses. The US military believes that Poltava/Dnipro/Zaporizhia will stop the Russian army and cause serious damage, and the tactics [operating with the retention of Donbass] of the General Staff will repeat the fate of Mariupol with a difference in scale. If a group of 20 thousand was surrounded and subjected to methodical destruction within a month, then the 100 thousandth army of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the eastern front can be surrounded within two weeks, and then the same scenario will happen as in Mariupol."
Russia will be only too glad for the Ukrainians to withdraw their forces to those cities. It makes taking over the Donbass a formality. Kharkiv can also thereafter be surrounded until it is starved out... Russia will then dig in defensively along the line stretching from Kharkiv to Kherson. If Ukraine is ready to negotiate after that, fine. If Ukraine doesn't, well Russia will remain where it is...
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
If it's border town on the Dnieper, Russian can do a public ultimatum and not entering the city. Letting one week pass to let citizens out and just leveling them. Polatava is half Mariupol size/population. will be hard but they will be encircled and starved.
Looks like Russia is going to be content at a minimum with all of the Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk oblasts. Most of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson. Additionally it might take most of will take most of Dnipro east of the Dnieper River, but that isn't a "need". Forget Poltava, Russia isn't going to get greedy...
 

Black Shark

Junior Member
One declared independence by overwhelming referendum (+92%) and one was split by foreign powers occupation against their will. Yea, totally comparable.

They seem to be putting up a hell of a fight to be 'not Russian'. Ethnicity is a social construct backed by blood/armed conflict. If you want to erase it, gotta impose your willpower to erase it.
Yeah, but no! We are not western people and this modern hyperbolic comedy of western decadency that everyhing is a "social construct" is just a modern technology of divide and conquer. It divides people in their own information and believe bubble and reinforces what they are fed with.

Ethnicity is only based on cultural and ancesteral ties and let us stop any modern degenerative twists of the West on this.
They are russians that were pounded by propaganda over more than a century to believe that they have their own ancestors, own history and very own genetics and are "PURE" while the russians are "mongoloids".
Just realized you written Jews :oops: so do you think they are responsible for the Soviet Union splitting apart?
Lenin was a Jew like 80% of the scum communists in the Soviet Union who run the party or the gulags. So you can figure it out for yourself why there is certain hate amongst Slavic people and the Jews.
 

Black Shark

Junior Member
Europeans, slavic or not, were pogroming jews waaaaaaaaaaaay before any bolshevik were born, so trying to blame it on the Bolsheviks to try to justify it is ahistorical bs.

Europeans were quite antisemitic on its very own.
The hate is predated by any of this sort by the Khazar's wars on slavic people, well not just slavic people. Please don't come up with the word "anti-semitic" the Jews are to big part from slavic nations over 1/3rd are directly from the Soviet Union and jews themselves are the most antisemitic people with their constant war rhetoric and atrocities and warmongering against Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians and Jordanians who are all semitic poeple.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top