Ukrainian War Developments

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Lapin

Junior Member
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The same goes for Ukraine as well, if its existential for them, why do they have to pull moves like conscripting every male from age 18-60 or releasing prisoners with combat experience to be sent to war. Again, its not only about security, its also politically for Putin and ideologically for a majority of the Russian population.

NATO has completely destroyed handful of countries over fake allegations, it doesn't have to be nukes like I said. And no, I would have preferred this never happened, and for it either deescalate now through negotiations or surrender.

A lot of the users here are not directly cheering for genocide, they are cheering for their own sides. The pro-Ukraine users here a very quiet when videos of Ukrainian military are committing war crimes against Russian POW and their own citizens, and its kind of same for pro-Russian users here as well. Nobody here is impartial, and have their own biases and position on the matter. Personally, I want see Russia getting out of this situation with some kind of win, at minimal cost possible for both sides, because Russia is one of my country's major ally, China.

If you're going to ask me to choose between security and morals, I'm always going to choose security. If there's no choice and an immoral action must be done to secure it, then I have to begrudgingly accept it and find my own ways to negate or reduce the cost and suffering for those that got affected. Especially when the solution to the Taiwan question will inevitably come, I want to make sure the Taiwanese identity is preserved as much as possible and, autonomy provided and protected to what is possible, through activism and organizations. This is sadly just how the world works.
"The same goes for Ukraine as well, if its existential for them ..."

Absurd. Russia's invading Ukraine, NOT the other way around. Are there any Ukrainian troops in Russia?

When Germany (soon to be joined by the USSR) invaded Poland in 1939, the Poles rightly regarded it as an 'existential war'.
By your 'logic', Germany should have regarded an unconquered Poland as a dangerous threat to Germany's existence.

"A lot of the users here are not directly cheering for genocide, they are cheering for their own sides."

That's such a dishonest excuse. These writers apparently approve of 'their side' committing genocide.
Most Germans did not 'directly cheer for genocide', but it was a consequence of Nazi policies of conquest.

"The pro-Ukraine users here .."

Who are they exactly? Can you name them? Have they not been shouted down or personally attacked?
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
That piece of news is a month old, dated March 5th. If EU is sincere about it, they would have formally asked China to do so in last Friday's EU-China Summit.

So hind sight does support why many members in this thread were cautious about what Borrell said then.

The European Union is not a party to this conflict. It's up to only Russia and Ukraine to agree upon a mediator.
 

Coalescence

Senior Member
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Absurd. Russia's invading Ukraine, NOT the other way around. Are there any Ukrainian troops in Russia?
Read it again, your argument is that if its existential to the country, then volunteers will start rushing in. I pointed out Ukraine having to resort to conscripting and releasing prisoners in order to fight their war, means that they likely are not having enough people volunteer for their fights. Also conscription is not really a good idea, if its rushed without training the volunteers. They might just ended up being liabilities and worse as cannon fodders for the frontline.
That's such a dishonest excuse. These writers apparently approve of 'their side' committing genocide.
Most Germans did not 'directly cheer for genocide', but it was a consequence of Nazi policies of conquest.
Correct, for this situation, its a consequence of the current military reality on the ground. The previous users you argue with are just stating that if it comes to it, Russia must take every steps to ensure their win.
Who are they exactly? Can you name them? Have they not been shouted down or personally attacked?
Maikeru is one of them I think, and yes he's been attacked by some of the users as well. Though he did do some retort back like calling them PLA rejects for... you know.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
It's nice to know that your heart bleeds far more for Japanese civilians than for Chinese civilians (who died in much higher numbers).
Surely, you should have urged China to surrender quickly to Japan and then, as a Japanese colony, loyally served
Japan in its war against the USA.
China had the strategic depth to pursue a war against Japan. Say, Korea, did not. And they surrendered. Do you think they should have insisted on dying pointlessly? I have nothing against Ukraine wanting to fight back. But the fact is in their case it is pointless.
I think Ukraine will just bleed out pointlessly, similar to how France bled out in WWI to the point they surrendered early in WWII.
Well even worse, since the Russians are fighting with two hands behind their back and Ukraine still can't manage to pull out a credible win.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
Read it again, your argument is that if its existential to the country, then volunteers will start rushing in. I pointed out Ukraine having to resort to conscripting and releasing prisoners in order to fight their war, means that they likely are not having enough people volunteer for their fights. Also conscription is not really a good idea, if its rushed without training the volunteers. They might just ended up being liabilities and worse as cannon fodders for the frontline.

Correct, for this situation, its a consequence of the current military reality on the ground. The previous users you argue with are just stating that if it comes to it, Russia must take every steps to ensure their win.

Maikeru is one of them I think, and yes he's been attacked by some of the users as well. Though he did do some retort back like calling them PLA rejects for... you know.

You apparently wrongly equate Russia and Ukraine in their needs to recruit from their reserves of manpower.
(Yes, I know that women can serve in the military, but few Russian or Ukrainian women have done so.)
Russia's population is about 145 million, Ukraine's population is about 41 million.
Russia's population is more than 3.5 times as large.
Ukraine would be driven earlier to desperate measures to attempt to approach parity in available manpower.

Let's suppose that China invades Mongolia, which has a population of slightly more than three million.
That's fewer than many Chinese cities. In desperation, Mongolia conscripts every male from age 16 to 60.
Would Chinese writers here sneeringly claim that if the Mongols were really motivated to fight, they would
have no problem finding enough soldiers as volunteers?
 

Coalescence

Senior Member
Registered Member
You apparently wrongly equate Russia and Ukraine in their needs to recruit from their reserves of manpower.
(Yes, I know that women can serve in the military, but few Russian or Ukrainian women have done so.)
Russia's population is about 145 million, Ukraine's population is about 41 million.
Russia's population is more than 3.5 times as large.
Ukraine would be driven earlier to desperate measures to attempt to approach parity in available manpower.

Let's suppose that China invades Mongolia, which has a population of slightly more than three million.
That's fewer than many Chinese cities. In desperation, Mongolia conscripts every male from age 16 to 60.
Would Chinese writers here sneeringly claim that if the Mongols were really motivated to fight, they would
have no problem finding enough soldiers as volunteers?
Uhh... but the crux of the argument is because its an existential war that volunteers will start pouring in. The amount they can recruit is irrelevant here, Ukraine even tried recruiting foreign troops as well. Also you do know that Russia only sent in like 200k troops against 600k active Ukraine troops right?

Most of the issues Ukraine is having right now stems from not having advanced weapons and vehicles to do major successful counterattacks. Now its not clear but they might not have enough weapons and fuel left, and had to resort to supply deliveries from EU and US.

Edit: Also Russia still has around 80% of their troops stationed at home, so we wouldn't see them needing to conscript atm.
Edit Edit: Oh yeah, and Ukraine started to turned down some foreign troops, because most of them are inexperienced and they are lacking in weapon supply.
 

Lapin

Junior Member
Registered Member
China had the strategic depth to pursue a war against Japan. Say, Korea, did not. And they surrendered. Do you think they should have insisted on dying pointlessly? I have nothing against Ukraine wanting to fight back. But the fact is in their case it is pointless.
I think Ukraine will just bleed out pointlessly, similar to how France bled out in WWI to the point they surrendered early in WWII.
Well even worse, since the Russians are fighting with two hands behind their back and Ukraine still can't manage to pull out a credible win.
More ignorance of history.

"China had the strategic depth to pursue a war against Japan. Say, Korea, did not. And they surrendered."

You apparently assume that Korea became a Japanese colony only after being invaded by Japan and surrendering after a war.
In fact, Korea was annexed by Japan under the terms of this treaty:

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"The Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910, also known as the Japan–Korea Annexation Treaty, was made by representatives of the
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and the
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on August 22, 1910.
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In this treaty, Japan formally
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Korea following the
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by which Korea became a
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of Japan and
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by which Korea
was deprived of the administration of internal affairs."

Earlier, Russia had major influence in the Korean Empire (1897-1910), but it lost that after the Russo-Japanese War.
"Korea effectively became a
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of Japan on 17 November 1905,"
 
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