Ukrainian War Developments

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's improbable that the Ukrainians will surrender and give up territory. The people running the show are nationalists, extremists. Their game plan is to escalate this to World War III. That's how they intend to win, when NATO joins the fight. The more likely scenarios for Russia are total defeat or constant decades-long war until Russia is totally exhausted (and possible regime change in Moscow) and Ukraine is totally destroyed.

The chances of Ukraine signing anything that would give up even Crimea is very remote. They will fight to take it all back, and they will fight to the end. They will be constantly supplied by NATO so they're never going to run out of ammo or equipment. The numbers are in their favor as well, because the Russians are unwilling to draft more than the standard number of yearly conscripts. Russia is also going to bleed population almost as much as Ukraine as young people flee to avoid conscription and to seek better opportunities abroad. I would expect to see expanding colonies of Russian expats in places like Latin America, Central Asia and Southeast Asia.
Being shot at and your homeland being turned to ruin is a very different type of experience than running away from conscription. There were far fewer American draft dodgers than Vietnamese refugees after all.

Ukraine has already played it's escalatory cards. It is already at total war, normal economic activity has already stopped, normal government processes are already suspended in favor of wartime policy. Meanwhile life in Russia itself is more or less normal. Who is going to get exhausted first?

Russia hasn't played several major conventional escalatory cards yet:

1. Hitting bridges on the Bug and Dnieper
2. Hitting dams, water treatment and conventional power plants
3. Turning off gas pipelines that pass through Ukraine

Any of these will massively reduce the capability of Ukraine to manage all these crises.

Basically I believe the correct policy for Russia is to overwhelm the Ukrainian government's OODA loop by creating too many disparate crises to deal with, through hitting infrastructure.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
It's improbable that the Ukrainians will surrender and give up territory. The people running the show are nationalists, extremists. Their game plan is to escalate this to World War III. That's how they intend to win, when NATO joins the fight. The more likely scenarios for Russia are total defeat or constant decades-long war until Russia is totally exhausted (and possible regime change in Moscow) and Ukraine is totally destroyed.

The chances of Ukraine signing anything that would give up even Crimea is very remote. They will fight to take it all back, and they will fight to the end. They will be constantly supplied by NATO so they're never going to run out of ammo or equipment. The numbers are in their favor as well, because the Russians are unwilling to draft more than the standard number of yearly conscripts. Russia is also going to bleed population almost as much as Ukraine as young people flee to avoid conscription and to seek better opportunities abroad. I would expect to see expanding colonies of Russian expats in places like Latin America, Central Asia and Southeast Asia.
Total defeat is impossible for Russia. If it got that bad they'll just nuke Kiev, Lvov and other Ukrainian cities until they get a surrender or there is nothing left.

Ukraine will be continue to fight as long as NATO supplies them. But NATO doesn't have an infinite stockpile and is currently spending billions a month. They're spending at a higher than the Afghan war. Politically all NATO countries are very unstable right now and there's a good chance any of them could end up dealing with serious public unrest.

Most Russians are nationalistic and seem to agree with Putin's idea that this is a war of survival. It certainly means more to them than Vietnam did to the average American. America didn't exactly bleed population then.

I agree that Ukraine is highly unlikely to sign an agreement. Even neutrality or no NATO would mean Ukraine would effectively cease to exist. Ukrainians build their identity on not being Russian. Giving up territory to Russia would make Zelensky the most hated man in the Ukraine and would probably lead to him fleeing and a pogrom of Ukrainian Jews by nationalists.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
So there is a report that Ukrainian forces are 20 km from Kherson ? I wonder. and there is other report that said Russia may pull out.

Kinda hard to believe, as Russia are said to set a new administration there. If the city fall back to Ukraine or abandoned, the city's inhabitatans may suffer reprisal or some of them would suffer reprisal for being considered "Pro Russians"
They were said to be mining a bridge across the Dnieper in Kherson a while ago. IMO it would be a mistake, but they know their capabilities more than we do. It's possible that Putin has decided he lost in March and he wants to end the war and all the stuff about focusing on Donbas is just cover for an orderly withdrawal back to pre-February 24th borders. In that case, a major humiliation and defeat for Russia.

I'm getting vibes of the 1904-05 Russo-Japanese war.
 

clockwork

Junior Member
Registered Member
LMAO no, that's like stealing your car then asking for your wallet in exchange for your car back. Refuse any offer to deal except hard moves on the ground like ending fuel supply.
Imagine how much money I could make if the world actually worked like that. I'll start slandering someone and won't stop until they pay me. Repeat.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
They were said to be mining a bridge across the Dnieper in Kherson a while ago. IMO it would be a mistake, but they know their capabilities more than we do. It's possible that Putin has decided he lost in March and he wants to end the war and all the stuff about focusing on Donbas is just cover for an orderly withdrawal back to pre-February 24th borders. In that case, a major humiliation and defeat for Russia.
Where did you get this ridiculous notion?
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
So there is a report that Ukrainian forces are 20 km from Kherson ? I wonder. and there is other report that said Russia may pull out.

Kinda hard to believe, as Russia are said to set a new administration there. If the city fall back to Ukraine or abandoned, the city's inhabitatans may suffer reprisal or some of them would suffer reprisal for being considered "Pro Russians"
Ukraine haven't launched a single combined arms counter attack this whole war. The most they can accomplish is small scale harassment attacks.
 

nixdorf

New Member
Registered Member
Total defeat is impossible for Russia. If it got that bad they'll just nuke Kiev, Lvov and other Ukrainian cities until they get a surrender or there is nothing left.

Ukraine will be continue to fight as long as NATO supplies them. But NATO doesn't have an infinite stockpile and is currently spending billions a month. They're spending at a higher than the Afghan war. Politically all NATO countries are very unstable right now and there's a good chance any of them could end up dealing with serious public unrest.

Most Russians are nationalistic and seem to agree with Putin's idea that this is a war of survival. It certainly means more to them than Vietnam did to the average American. America didn't exactly bleed population then.

I agree that Ukraine is highly unlikely to sign an agreement. Even neutrality or no NATO would mean Ukraine would effectively cease to exist. Ukrainians build their identity on not being Russian. Giving up territory to Russia would make Zelensky the most hated man in the Ukraine and would probably lead to him fleeing and a pogrom of Ukrainian Jews by nationalists.

To the point that America didn't bleed population in the Vietnam war, actually a large number of Americans did flee to Canada or elsewhere, according to Wikipedia 60,000 to 100,000 men left.

But it would have been many more than that if America was a country sanctioned and suffering an economic crisis. The better comparison would be to countries like Venezuela and Cuba. The effect of the sanctions will become clear in time.
 

Maikeru

Major
Registered Member
Drive update, including Ka52 downed by Stugna ATGM:

 
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