Ukrainian War Developments

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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
Well, what can you do? People striving to further their own interest. This is as natural as a animal seeking to feed themselves.
Their job as leaders is to further the national interest of their country, are you expecting them to harm their own nation interest in order to uphold some logical consistency? Well, that's one way to get themselves prosecuted for "treason".

In crude internet Chinese, it's: " 脸是啥,能吃吗?"
You mean if you lying for yourself about the motivation / interest of the other party, and broadcast these narratives helps to achieve your target ?


If you inherit few billion on dollars then yeah, you can loose lot before you recognise the strategy doesn't work : D.

But for a country a strategy based on lying is not sensible.

Check the Russians, they simply try to be honest and straight with the interest they have, and have objective assesment about of the interest of others.

Problem is to use lying as an effective political tool the person needs to be a 4D chessmaster OR haveing lot of resources to cover all idiotism that he conduct.

Neither is true for the USA anymore.
 

lucretius

Junior Member
Registered Member
Starstreak is junk. A laser guided manpad? LOL.

It's the modern version of the blowpipe which was just as bad. I bet it won't get a single kill.

Yep fire and forget is the way to go in Ukraine's situation.

This war has just become a repeat of the Afghan Soviet war where every country wanted to sell America their own platforms to show how good they were. A lot of them were complete sh*te like the blowpipe, but thanks to politics were pushed through anyway.

Can I claim that bet?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Motor Sich, enquiring about the Bayraktar Akıncı UCAV. Interesting question no. 9...

"The document dated December, 15, 2021 presents a response to request from Ukrainian Motor Sich company to the Turkish drone manufacturer Baykar Makina" -
View attachment 86367View attachment 86368
Yeah you're right. Look at Question #9:

Motorsich: Is the UAV equipped a system/mechanism for spraying aerosols with a capacity of more than 20 liters?

Baykar: No.

What on earth is Motorsich requesting aerosol capability for? Since Motorsich is de facto US controlled. This question is very suspiciously American-written.

I know exactly why they need those aerosol sprayers for. But I just don't want to discuss it now, because its still conspiracy theory at this point. We will know the truth in due time.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
It was difficult to sustain without significantly greater additional manpower and equipment and other resources accordingly. The Russians NEVER committed remotely enough personnel to the Kiev front to surround Kiev, let alone storm it. They were operating under the flawed, extremely hubristic assumption that the Ukrainians would give up with them just showing up around Kiev. Even the initial rush to Kiev was undertaken too quickly, with combat units going ahead well ahead of logistics and supplies, and leaving their rear unguarded and even logistics and supplies insufficiently guarded during the first week of the war. Hence their casualties there were very heavy at the time.

The Kiev Operation by the Russians will go down in history as one of the biggest blunders of the 21st century in terms of its calculations, preparations, and executions:

1) Assuming that the Ukrainians would give up as soon as the Russians showed up at Kiev - WRONG!

2) Manpower and materiel resources necessary for the objective - INSUFFICIENT!

3) Speed of the advance and necessary protective precautions - WAY TO FAST AND LARGELY ABSENT.

And 3) and 2) were predicated on 1). Having the attitude of 1) was because of extreme hubris. The Russians completely forgot their chastening of the 1st Chechen War, which made them extremely cautious and respectful in the 2nd Chechen War.
I believe that many people are approaching Russia's methodology of the war in Ukraine in a manner that is quite wrong. In regards to the casualties for starters, for Russia and the amount of people sent, the number of casualties not exceeding 3k so far is quite the achievement with a much higher amount of Ukrainian soldiers dead being over 10k or more so far. While people consider that Russia's withdrawal from the surrounding of Kiev may seem to be a sign of weakness, I believe that it only means that the Russian's are concentrating their forces else where as Kiev may only really be a long term prize while Mariupol and the rest of the Dombass and the east of Ukraine is the places that the Russians really want the most given that no only those is create an even greater buffer but also much of Ukraine's industrial and coastal cities are located in those place. Russians battle plans are not to be seen in the same lens as a westerner might like to see it because right now given the focus of Putin is the denazification of Ukraine, it is obvious that it is not only going to be a big task, but slip ups will happen along the way but provided that tangible progress is made, well really, can we really rely on any news from the west that says the words, that Russia is losing?

Also keep in mind the reason that the Russian's use such a limited forces to go into Ukraine in the first place is because the Russian military have other forces that are deployed around the world in a manner that keeps it's true enemy guessing. Given that the USA is willing to use any measure to win, including nukes, is the Russian's do use a blitzkrieg maneuver to quickly take the capital with over half of the Russian military deployed, don't you think that the USA will be willing to use that chance to nuke that force in order to greatly reduce the Russian military, I mean the moment that the USA uses sanction against Russia in a manner that will harm the Russian people and the complete lack of humanity used to basically bomb innocent civilians to death in the middle east, don't you think that Putin has every right to be a little careful weigh things a little more carefully and do things in a manner that doesn't encourage the western world to think of Putin as a Hitler and thus play into the USA war narrative that could possibility unite the western world into unite front and allow the USA to use nukes with the support of the western world backing them. In that case and with the news coming out that the Ukrainians are basically abusing war prisoners and the civilians in the Dombass being common news areas of the world such as India and China among many others and even worse, have these people being labeled as Nazi's which for much of the world, is very difficult to get people to support given the stigma of that very name, this is working quite nicely to ensure that Ukraine is not going to get the kind of support that Zelenski is desperately seeking from the world and by extension Biden with the general population of the US not giving a crap and the Europeans being more worried about whether they will have any gas at home to use then what happens in Ukraine. In a sense, that alone takes a lot of skill given that the US military is still very strong but also stretched quite thin and also that Russia is fighting on regardless of what strengths the west has spent right now to counter Russia. Each time the USA plays a card (sanctions and wealth confiscation) and fails to have the desired affect, that is another card that cannot be used again and that is also another card that Russia can use at a later date, so in a sense, Russia is doing impressively in that front.

This is a war fought on many fronts, one a military front which has the focus on destroying as much of the Ukrainian forces as possible while focusing on the wiping out of the Azov battalion as a major focus while Putin has to manage the economic and media war being fought against Russia to which given the advantage that the USA has, the fact that much of the non western world is either neutral or supporting Russia, that in effect is a major victory in itself and this serves to make the west look pretty stupid given that all the sanctions and shock and awe has done is turn the Russians eastward to China and India and thus demand that the west either pay in Rubles for their gas and oil or go home cold. This in effect will quicken the death of the dollar since other nations will be considering similar actions could easily be used on them and thus would want to get rid of all there dollars as soon as possible, something that Biden doesn't want happening at all cost. One last thing to note is that with Russia threatening to cut of the gas a critical juncture and with few alternatives for Europe in the middle east and the USA not having remote enough resources to replace Russia and with the amount of refugees flooding into Europe (those humanitarian corridors are a stroke of genius in that it allows the civilians to flood to Poland to get away from the fighting), thus causing yet another migrant crisis at a time that the EU is already suffering from gas shortages, food insecurities and all other issues that the EU wouldn't be having right now if they didn't follow the US and the UK blindly into this predicament, Europe is not in a good place at all. This has the potential to cause some real damages to many economies in Europe, something that many leaders in Europe do not want happening at a time when many of these nations are going to be questioning there leaders on how they managed to do this to them because they wanted to please Biden which I can guarantee is not going to be a very good excuse at all

At the end of the day, I am of the impression that rather then Russia being in a losing position, I believe that over time that provided that Putin is able to weather the storm, he does have the potential to win very big or at the very least, claim on important territory while commencing the diminishing the value of the dollar which will kick start the fall of the USA as a super power. Keep in mind that the USA desperately wants to focus on China with its full force along with all of there allies in order to ensure a real win and also to embolden the USA and its allies that its glory days are just beginning but given that Putin chose this moment to wage this war, Biden is now in a situation that no nation that is a super power wants to be in ever. Either the EU is forced pay for the gas in Rubles, thus diminishing the value of the dollar to the point where its value as a world's reserve is truly called into question or the EU doesn't do so and lets a large portion of its population to freeze which will weaken Europe as a whole to the point where the US will not have the European support that they need to confront China. Also, should the Azov battalion and by extension the Ukrainian military be beaten badly enough that the whole world can see it despite all the CNN coverage, this will be another black mark that Biden will have along with the Afghan withdrawal which is not going to be very encouraging for the allies of the USA if they want to confront China over Taiwan and since China stood by Russia firmly without fail, they can count on Russian support in regards to Taiwan which quite frankly is going to decrease the enthusiasm that the likes of Japan, Sth Korea or Taiwan into having a go with China. I mean Russia has control over the gas and with the good will that China has with the middle east, these three nations wouldn't have any where near the level of courage to try anything given the proven level of unreliability that the US currently has right now. Hence this shows right now that if Biden has any pretense to believe that he is going to get what he wants in regards to China and Russia, he should have checked into a retirement home immediately since he has made far too many mistakes in regards to this crisis that it is not funny. Thus, the USA in the long term, is not going to be in a very good place in the coming years and that along with all of the issues they have right now in regards to food shortage, goods shortage, failing infrastructure not being managed in favor of external crisis's that the USA shouldn't be focusing on could result in a situation where the next big crisis that will happen, is going to be on American soil and they have only themselves to blame

I apologies, this post is quite long
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
I believe that many people are approaching Russia's methodology of the war in Ukraine in a manner that is quite wrong. In regards to the casualties for starters, for Russia and the amount of people sent, the number of casualties not exceeding 3k so far is quite the achievement with a much higher amount of Ukrainian soldiers dead being over 10k or more so far. While people consider that Russia's withdrawal from the surrounding of Kiev may seem to be a sign of weakness, I believe that it only means that the Russian's are concentrating their forces else where as Kiev may only really be a long term prize while Mariupol and the rest of the Dombass and the east of Ukraine is the places that the Russians really want the most given that no only those is create an even greater buffer but also much of Ukraine's industrial and coastal cities are located in those place. Russians battle plans are not to be seen in the same lens as a westerner might like to see it because right now given the focus of Putin is the denazification of Ukraine, it is obvious that it is not only going to be a big task, but slip ups will happen along the way but provided that tangible progress is made, well really, can we really rely on any news from the west that says the words, that Russia is losing?

Also keep in mind the reason that the Russian's use such a limited forces to go into Ukraine in the first place is because the Russian military have other forces that are deployed around the world in a manner that keeps it's true enemy guessing. Given that the USA is willing to use any measure to win, including nukes, is the Russian's do use a blitzkrieg maneuver to quickly take the capital with over half of the Russian military deployed, don't you think that the USA will be willing to use that chance to nuke that force in order to greatly reduce the Russian military, I mean the moment that the USA uses sanction against Russia in a manner that will harm the Russian people and the complete lack of humanity used to basically bomb innocent civilians to death in the middle east, don't you think that Putin has every right to be a little careful weigh things a little more carefully and do things in a manner that doesn't encourage the western world to think of Putin as a Hitler and thus play into the USA war narrative that could possibility unite the western world into unite front and allow the USA to use nukes with the support of the western world backing them. In that case and with the news coming out that the Ukrainians are basically abusing war prisoners and the civilians in the Dombass being common news areas of the world such as India and China among many others and even worse, have these people being labeled as Nazi's which for much of the world, is very difficult to get people to support given the stigma of that very name, this is working quite nicely to ensure that Ukraine is not going to get the kind of support that Zelenski is desperately seeking from the world and by extension Biden with the general population of the US not giving a crap and the Europeans being more worried about whether they will have any gas at home to use then what happens in Ukraine. In a sense, that alone takes a lot of skill given that the US military is still very strong but also stretched quite thin and also that Russia is fighting on regardless of what strengths the west has spent right now to counter Russia. Each time the USA plays a card (sanctions and wealth confiscation) and fails to have the desired affect, that is another card that cannot be used again and that is also another card that Russia can use at a later date, so in a sense, Russia is doing impressively in that front.

This is a war fought on many fronts, one a military front which has the focus on destroying as much of the Ukrainian forces as possible while focusing on the wiping out of the Azov battalion as a major focus while Putin has to manage the economic and media war being fought against Russia to which given the advantage that the USA has, the fact that much of the non western world is either neutral or supporting Russia, that in effect is a major victory in itself and this serves to make the west look pretty stupid given that all the sanctions and shock and awe has done is turn the Russians eastward to China and India and thus demand that the west either pay in Rubles for their gas and oil or go home cold. This in effect will quicken the death of the dollar since other nations will be considering similar actions could easily be used on them and thus would want to get rid of all there dollars as soon as possible, something that Biden doesn't want happening at all cost. One last thing to note is that with Russia threatening to cut of the gas a critical juncture and with few alternatives for Europe in the middle east and the USA not having remote enough resources to replace Russia and with the amount of refugees flooding into Europe (those humanitarian corridors are a stroke of genius in that it allows the civilians to flood to Poland to get away from the fighting), thus causing yet another migrant crisis at a time that the EU is already suffering from gas shortages, food insecurities and all other issues that the EU wouldn't be having right now if they didn't follow the US and the UK blindly into this predicament, Europe is not in a good place at all. This has the potential to cause some real damages to many economies in Europe, something that many leaders in Europe do not want happening at a time when many of these nations are going to be questioning there leaders on how they managed to do this to them because they wanted to please Biden which I can guarantee is not going to be a very good excuse at all

At the end of the day, I am of the impression that rather then Russia being in a losing position, I believe that over time that provided that Putin is able to weather the storm, he does have the potential to win very big or at the very least, claim on important territory while commencing the diminishing the value of the dollar which will kick start the fall of the USA as a super power. Keep in mind that the USA desperately wants to focus on China with its full force along with all of there allies in order to ensure a real win and also to embolden the USA and its allies that its glory days are just beginning but given that Putin chose this moment to wage this war, Biden is now in a situation that no nation that is a super power wants to be in ever. Either the EU is forced pay for the gas in Rubles, thus diminishing the value of the dollar to the point where its value as a world's reserve is truly called into question or the EU doesn't do so and lets a large portion of its population to freeze which will weaken Europe as a whole to the point where the US will not have the European support that they need to confront China. Also, should the Azov battalion and by extension the Ukrainian military be beaten badly enough that the whole world can see it despite all the CNN coverage, this will be another black mark that Biden will have along with the Afghan withdrawal which is not going to be very encouraging for the allies of the USA if they want to confront China over Taiwan and since China stood by Russia firmly without fail, they can count on Russian support in regards to Taiwan which quite frankly is going to decrease the enthusiasm that the likes of Japan, Sth Korea or Taiwan into having a go with China. I mean Russia has control over the gas and with the good will that China has with the middle east, these three nations wouldn't have any where near the level of courage to try anything given the proven level of unreliability that the US currently has right now. Hence this shows right now that if Biden has any pretense to believe that he is going to get what he wants in regards to China and Russia, he should have checked into a retirement home immediately since he has made far too many mistakes in regards to this crisis that it is not funny. Thus, the USA in the long term, is not going to be in a very good place in the coming years and that along with all of the issues they have right now in regards to food shortage, goods shortage, failing infrastructure not being managed in favor of external crisis's that the USA shouldn't be focusing on could result in a situation where the next big crisis that will happen, is going to be on American soil and they have only themselves to blame

I apologies, this post is quite long
I get your points. But you should make many more paragraphs for it to be easier to read.
 

Broccoli

Senior Member
American combat vet watches VDV in action and gives his opinions. He talks a lot about lack of optics on Russian rifles.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
I get your points. But you should make many more paragraphs for it to be easier to read.
Yeah, but I guess the main point I a really trying to make is that while Russia did make mistakes, I would say that the amount of mistakes that Ukraine and but extension the west including the USA has made ultimately balances things out and then some. As long as Russia didn't not retreat and surrender all of the territory they have gained and then somehow capitulating to the west in regards to the sanctions, Russia still has done extremely well given the circumstances and should they manage to complete they objectives regardless of the loses, Then Russia will ultimately have won and thus strike a major blow against the idea that the USA is as dominate as they love to portray themselves.

In the end with all the preparations that the USA has given Ukraine and yet the forces in Ukraine are in this kind of trouble despite Russia being short on attackers, well it does speak much about low that USA has fallen in regards to their military capability since a real super power shouldn't have this issue whatsoever. I mean for the USA to resort to such overwhelming sanctions and yet Russia absorbed the blow in a matter of weeks, (the value of the Ruble has come back to the level it has originally been before all the sanctions) this speaks much about the current strength of the USA isn't as dominate as they once where,
 
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