Ukrainian War Developments

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
At the start of the war I was pretty certain the objective was to take all of the Ukraine, now I'm thinking Putin is considering ways to carry this on to Poland or the Baltics. While Biden is trying to diffuse a nuclear showdowns, Putin is actively seeking to provoke them.
It isn't that strange actually. Russia as usual follows the "escalate to de-escalate" strategy
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
I don't disagree. In fact, you emphasized my point completely.

NATO could have rushed in quicker but didn't. They rushed in as quickly as their supply lines could support. I wonder if the Russians gave that any consideration.

The Russians have achieved their objectives, but the subject of the earlier discussion wasn't if they could be met, it was why the speedbumps were present in the first place. We were attempting to answer (or speculate, as some here seem to despise making conclusions) why abandoned vehicles appeared everywhere, and why overall army organization contributed to that phenomenon.

Regardless, the stage is set. The situation seems to have stabilized now after the chaos of the first week.
Yeah, I agreed with most of your post. The bit I didn't agree with was the YOLO bit, the only place you can make that case that happening was on the Kiev front. On that front it seems that Ukrainian forces did collapse and it was an open road to Kiev.

However you can make good arguments for why it was important to get to Kiev as quickly as possible. There was the capture of the airport, although it's unclear right now if they really were unsupported or not. A lot of disinformation floating around about that operation.

Ultimately the Russian army traded old tanks and vehicles breaking down for the opportunity to have a sword on the neck of the Kiev regime by day 3 of the operation. I don't think they expected to have so many break down, but it's an irrelevant point given the position they are in.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yeah, I agreed with most of your post. The bit I didn't agree with was the YOLO bit, the only place you can make that case that happening was on the Kiev front. On that front it seems that Ukrainian forces did collapse and it was an open road to Kiev.

However you can make good arguments for why it was important to get to Kiev as quickly as possible. There was the capture of the airport, although it's unclear right now if they really were unsupported or not. A lot of disinformation floating around about that operation.

Ultimately the Russian army traded old tanks and vehicles breaking down for the opportunity to have a sword on the neck of the Kiev regime by day 3 of the operation. I don't think they expected to have so many break down, but it's an irrelevant point given the position they are in.
Capture Kiev in 3 days... What must someone be smoking to believe that is actually possible? Only under extremely hubristic and arrogant assumptions that the Ukrainians were not going to fight...
 

Bill Blazo

Junior Member
Registered Member
I apologize if it's already been mentioned, but reports are coming out that the Russians have captured Rubizhne in Luhansk (eastern front). That's an important win for them and it puts that much more pressure on Severodonetsk, which will probably fall within a week. Once that's done, the Russians would pretty much control all of Luhansk, one of their key objectives.
 

Lethe

Captain
At the start of the war I was pretty certain the objective was to take all of the Ukraine, now I'm thinking Putin is considering ways to carry this on to Poland or the Baltics. While Biden is trying to diffuse a nuclear showdowns, Putin is actively seeking to provoke them.

If Russia succeeds in consolidating control of Ukraine -- and that is a very big 'if' -- then, given the de facto state of economic war that has been declared on Russia, I think it is entirely plausible that Moscow will at least consider revising the dispensation of the Baltic states. Not only would doing so serve more or less the same purpose as the invasion of Ukraine, but if successful it would break the back of NATO by revealing it as a paper tiger. However, under these circumstances, I believe that Washington would use tactical nuclear weapons. This is why the west cannot allow Russia to succeed in consolidating control of Ukraine in the first place.

It's a completely crazy strategy but it's being encouraged by western incompetence. During the Cold War, the west would look to find common ground with Soviet leaders, right now the strategy seems to be the complete opposite, to treat Russia like Iraq or Syria. No-one in Washington has actually sat down to think how the Iraq war would have ended if Saddam had 10,000 ICBMs.

There are now multiple generations of western leaders who have no experience in dealing with complex strategic realities in which interests must be clearly assessed in light of power considerations. These leaders live in a world of rhetorical moralism and foreign policy decisions undertaken without regard for their consequences -- because there usually aren't any.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
However, under these circumstances, I believe that Washington would use tactical nuclear weapons. This is why the west cannot allow Russia to succeed in consolidating control of Ukraine in the first place.
Whatever the West can use, Russia will use 10 times more if it is threatened. And if the West gets the courage to enter a nuclear exchange war with Russia then Putin will happily oblige it.

After all, who has the most to lose from a nuclear exchange? The combined almost $40 trillion Western economies or the $1.5 trillion Russian economy?

Similarly, who will lose the most, the West's 800 million population or Russia's 150 million people?

In both cases, the biggest loser is the West not Russia. As such, we can conclude that from power dynamics, Russia's nuclear threat is much more of a deterrence against the West than the other way around
 
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