Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter Jura The idiot
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
no. It's not a totally open venue. it has it's own procedures and rules of conduct. and despite it all in the end it will only be bark. nothing more. they can jump up and down making speeches but the problem is not on the floor it's on the ground.
Because despite the Propaganda there is no singular rebel group and command to negotiate with and because Kiev is not in a position to assure the Security of it's side. and because both sides are fighting dirty. neither side can really let a investigation proceeded. they are both more interested in pointing the finger at each other. and the larger powers are both more then happy to back there party of choice in pointing.
Because despite the Propaganda there is no singular rebel group and command to negotiate with and because Kiev is not in a position to assure the Security of it's side. and because both sides are fighting dirty. neither side can really let a investigation proceeded. they are both more interested in pointing the finger at each other. and the larger powers are both more then happy to back there party of choice in pointing.
Doing something in the UN is far far better than not doing anything. The point is not to get UN to decide anything but to register a formal complaint as a member of that body.
There are very few avenues for small nations to voice their international problems but the UN is most definitely the most important open to them.
There are very few avenues for small nations to voice their international problems but the UN is most definitely the most important open to them.
My favorite radio station said in its news bulletin a few minutes ago that the MH17 wreckage that was recovered last week and transported by rail to Charkov will arrive in The Netherlands next week, being transported by road. Loading on the lorries starts today. It's a long journey apparently. Or are they still wasting time?
Last edited:
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Battery of 2S1 Gvozdika shelling position of Kiev forces:
[video=youtube;rK17gap9KGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK17gap9KGY&feature=player_embedded[/video]
I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
[video=youtube;rK17gap9KGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK17gap9KGY&feature=player_embedded[/video]
I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Short footage from the Donetsk airport:
[video=youtube;CkXG1pNo-Wo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkXG1pNo-Wo&feature=player_embedded[/video]
I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
[video=youtube;CkXG1pNo-Wo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkXG1pNo-Wo&feature=player_embedded[/video]
I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Sniper rifle testing. Looks like KSVK 12.7, but maybe TerraN can Identify:
[video=youtube;IA_VLEudeC4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IA_VLEudeC4[/video]
I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
[video=youtube;IA_VLEudeC4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IA_VLEudeC4[/video]
I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
Very compelling statement of a deliberate attempt to cover up the shooting down of MH17.
MH17: Barring Malaysia From Investigation Reeks of Cover-up
It was a Malaysian jet, carrying Malaysian passengers, flown by Malaysian pilots, yet after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine in July 2014, Malaysia has been systematically blocked from participating in the investigation, leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence, investigation and outcome as well as the manner in which the investigation will be carried out.
Despite the integral role Malaysia has played during several pivotal moments in the aftermath of the disaster, it appears that the closer to the truth the investigation should be getting, the further Malaysia itself is being pushed from both the evidence and any influence it has on the likely conclusions of the investigation. With the downed aircraft in question being Malaysian, Malaysia as a partner in the investigation would seem a given. Its exclusion from the investigation appears to be an indication that the investigation’s objectivity has been compromised and that the conclusions it draws will likely be politically motivated.
Joint Investigation Team Includes, Excludes Surprising Members
With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would also be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia.
Malaysia was surprised and has protested its exclusion from JIT, and has repeatedly expressed a desire to be included directly in the investigation.
Malaysia’s Star newspaper would report, “Malaysian Ambassador to the Netherlands Datuk Dr Fauziah Mohd Taib said Malaysia had not been invited to officially join the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT), which is undertaking the criminal probe.” It would also report that, “Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said recently that Malaysia had expressed its stand very clearly that it must be part of the criminal investigation team and had informed Dutch authorities of its intention.”
The Malaysian Insider cited Malaysian scholar Dr. Chandra Muzaffar who believes the decision to exclude his country from the investigation is politically motivated, aiming at excluding members who may urge caution and objectivity instead of drawing conclusions first, and then bend the investigation’s results around those conclusions. In particular, Dr. Muzaffar believes that the investigation is intentionally being skewed to target Russia.
Ukraine’s involvement in the investigation is particularly troublesome. Had MH17 crashed in Ukraine under different circumstances, Ukraine’s role would be welcome. However, it was apparently shot down specifically in a conflict in which Kiev itself is a participant. With both sides of the conflict possessing anti-aircraft weapons and with Kiev itself confirmed to possess weapons capable of reaching the altitude MH17 was flying when allegedly hit, Kiev becomes a possible suspect in the investigation. Kiev’s inclusion in JIT represents a monumental conflict of interest.
Imagine a potential suspect leading an investigation into a crime they may have committed. The possibilities to cover up, skew, spin, tamper with or otherwise distort both the evidence and the outcome of the investigation are endless.
And to compound this already glaring conflict of interest, it was revealed recently that an alleged “secret deal” was struck by JIT in which any member could bar the release of evidence. With all members of JIT being pro-NATO and decidedly arrayed against Moscow, such a “deal” could prevent crucial evidence from being revealed that would effect an otherwise distorted conclusion drawn by the investigators aimed specifically at advancing their greater political agenda in Eastern Europe. Had Malaysia been a member of JIT, the ability of other members to withhold evidence would have been greatly diminished and it is likely such a bizarre deal would not have been conceivable, real or imaged, in the first place.
Malaysia’s Exclusion Foreshadows Politically Motivated Outcome
With the ongoing conflict in Ukraine perceived as a proxy war between NATO and Moscow, JIT’s membership including the NATO-backed Kiev regime itself (a possible suspect), two NATO members (Belgium and the Netherlands) and Australia who has passed sanctions against Russia over the conflict, is a textbook case of conflict of interest.
Those nations and international organizations calling for an investigation and justice while ignoring the obvious problem of participants in a conflict investigating a key incident that may benefit their agenda directly, indicates that such calls for justice are disingenuous and instead, what is being done is not an investigation, but a politically motivated witch-hunt aimed at serving an ulterior motive.
Malaysia is not generally perceived to be a stanch ally of Moscow, but it is neither a loyal client state of Washington, London, or Brussels. On many issues, Malaysia has exhibited independence in foreign policy that has perturbed the so-called international order maintained by the West. And Malaysia’s internal politics have long wrestled to stem inroads by Washington’s favorites including Anwar Ibrahim and his political faction, Pakatan Rakyat.
Its inclusion in the investigation would provide a much needed, impartial counterweight to an otherwise fully pro-NATO JIT membership.
To casual observers, the current investigation led by NATO members and Kiev, a possible suspect, would be no different than the Donetsk People’s Republic and Russia leading it. Few would consider a DPR or Russian-led investigation impartial, and few should see a NATO-led investigation as impartial. Had Malaysia been included in the process, an argument could have been made that an actual investigation was taking place rather than a complex propaganda campaign.
Malaysia’s exclusion is a troubling sign for the victims of the MH17 disaster, meaning the true culprits will never be known. The overt politically motivated nature of the investigation will on one hand help fuel NATO’s propaganda war, but on the other hand, fuel the doubts of millions worldwide over the true events that took place in the skies of eastern Ukraine that day. Like so many other events in human history that took place amid a high stakes political struggle, the downing of MH17 will be shrouded in mystery, mystery draped over the truth by the irresponsible leadership of NATO, and those in Washington, London and Brussels egging on the conflict in Ukraine to this very day.
Reprinted with permission from New Eastern Outlook.
MH17: Barring Malaysia From Investigation Reeks of Cover-up
It was a Malaysian jet, carrying Malaysian passengers, flown by Malaysian pilots, yet after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine in July 2014, Malaysia has been systematically blocked from participating in the investigation, leaving an overwhelmingly pro-NATO bloc in charge of the evidence, investigation and outcome as well as the manner in which the investigation will be carried out.
Despite the integral role Malaysia has played during several pivotal moments in the aftermath of the disaster, it appears that the closer to the truth the investigation should be getting, the further Malaysia itself is being pushed from both the evidence and any influence it has on the likely conclusions of the investigation. With the downed aircraft in question being Malaysian, Malaysia as a partner in the investigation would seem a given. Its exclusion from the investigation appears to be an indication that the investigation’s objectivity has been compromised and that the conclusions it draws will likely be politically motivated.
Joint Investigation Team Includes, Excludes Surprising Members
With the Dutch leading the investigation, the logic being that the flight originated from the Netherlands and the majority of the passengers were Dutch, it has formed a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). At the onset of its creation it seemed obvious that Malaysia would also be included, considering it lost the second largest number of citizens to the disaster and the plane itself was registered in Malaysia. Instead, JIT would end up comprised of Belgium, Ukraine, and Australia, specifically excluding Malaysia.
Malaysia was surprised and has protested its exclusion from JIT, and has repeatedly expressed a desire to be included directly in the investigation.
Malaysia’s Star newspaper would report, “Malaysian Ambassador to the Netherlands Datuk Dr Fauziah Mohd Taib said Malaysia had not been invited to officially join the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT), which is undertaking the criminal probe.” It would also report that, “Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said recently that Malaysia had expressed its stand very clearly that it must be part of the criminal investigation team and had informed Dutch authorities of its intention.”
The Malaysian Insider cited Malaysian scholar Dr. Chandra Muzaffar who believes the decision to exclude his country from the investigation is politically motivated, aiming at excluding members who may urge caution and objectivity instead of drawing conclusions first, and then bend the investigation’s results around those conclusions. In particular, Dr. Muzaffar believes that the investigation is intentionally being skewed to target Russia.
Ukraine’s involvement in the investigation is particularly troublesome. Had MH17 crashed in Ukraine under different circumstances, Ukraine’s role would be welcome. However, it was apparently shot down specifically in a conflict in which Kiev itself is a participant. With both sides of the conflict possessing anti-aircraft weapons and with Kiev itself confirmed to possess weapons capable of reaching the altitude MH17 was flying when allegedly hit, Kiev becomes a possible suspect in the investigation. Kiev’s inclusion in JIT represents a monumental conflict of interest.
Imagine a potential suspect leading an investigation into a crime they may have committed. The possibilities to cover up, skew, spin, tamper with or otherwise distort both the evidence and the outcome of the investigation are endless.
And to compound this already glaring conflict of interest, it was revealed recently that an alleged “secret deal” was struck by JIT in which any member could bar the release of evidence. With all members of JIT being pro-NATO and decidedly arrayed against Moscow, such a “deal” could prevent crucial evidence from being revealed that would effect an otherwise distorted conclusion drawn by the investigators aimed specifically at advancing their greater political agenda in Eastern Europe. Had Malaysia been a member of JIT, the ability of other members to withhold evidence would have been greatly diminished and it is likely such a bizarre deal would not have been conceivable, real or imaged, in the first place.
Malaysia’s Exclusion Foreshadows Politically Motivated Outcome
With the ongoing conflict in Ukraine perceived as a proxy war between NATO and Moscow, JIT’s membership including the NATO-backed Kiev regime itself (a possible suspect), two NATO members (Belgium and the Netherlands) and Australia who has passed sanctions against Russia over the conflict, is a textbook case of conflict of interest.
Those nations and international organizations calling for an investigation and justice while ignoring the obvious problem of participants in a conflict investigating a key incident that may benefit their agenda directly, indicates that such calls for justice are disingenuous and instead, what is being done is not an investigation, but a politically motivated witch-hunt aimed at serving an ulterior motive.
Malaysia is not generally perceived to be a stanch ally of Moscow, but it is neither a loyal client state of Washington, London, or Brussels. On many issues, Malaysia has exhibited independence in foreign policy that has perturbed the so-called international order maintained by the West. And Malaysia’s internal politics have long wrestled to stem inroads by Washington’s favorites including Anwar Ibrahim and his political faction, Pakatan Rakyat.
Its inclusion in the investigation would provide a much needed, impartial counterweight to an otherwise fully pro-NATO JIT membership.
To casual observers, the current investigation led by NATO members and Kiev, a possible suspect, would be no different than the Donetsk People’s Republic and Russia leading it. Few would consider a DPR or Russian-led investigation impartial, and few should see a NATO-led investigation as impartial. Had Malaysia been included in the process, an argument could have been made that an actual investigation was taking place rather than a complex propaganda campaign.
Malaysia’s exclusion is a troubling sign for the victims of the MH17 disaster, meaning the true culprits will never be known. The overt politically motivated nature of the investigation will on one hand help fuel NATO’s propaganda war, but on the other hand, fuel the doubts of millions worldwide over the true events that took place in the skies of eastern Ukraine that day. Like so many other events in human history that took place amid a high stakes political struggle, the downing of MH17 will be shrouded in mystery, mystery draped over the truth by the irresponsible leadership of NATO, and those in Washington, London and Brussels egging on the conflict in Ukraine to this very day.
Reprinted with permission from New Eastern Outlook.
From Malaysia:
Has Malaysia been left out of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) probing the MH17 crash because the country would not point fingers at Russia, asks the International Movement for a Just World (JUST) today.
Its president, prominent Malaysian scholar Dr Chandra Muzaffar, said it was logical and sensible for Malaysia to be part of the investigation since national carrier Malaysia Airlines (MAS) owned the downed aircraft.
In an article on the Centre for Research on Globalisation website dated November 24, he wrote that Malaysia had more rights to be in the JIT than some of its present members, and expressed hopes that a resolution endorsing a demand to be included in the team be adopted at the ongoing Umno general assembly.
"One can understand why Ukraine is in the team since that is where the plane was shot from the sky. We can understand the Netherlands’s membership of the JIT since the flight originated from Amsterdam.
"But why is Belgium in the JIT? Is it because Brussels is the administrative capital of the European Union and the EU may have some aviation responsibilities over commercial flights in the continent?
"If that is the case, then it is the EU, not Belgium, which should have a place in the team," he wrote.
Chandra said if Australia was in the JIT because a large number of Australians were killed in that tragedy, Malaysia should also be in the team as it lost 43 citizens on board – the second largest number of casualties after 193 Dutch nationals.
He said the Unites States should perhaps be a member of the investigation team since Boeing, an American multinational, manufactured the 777 passenger jet.
MH17, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed in rebel-held eastern Ukraine after it was shot by an air-to-surface missile on July 17. All 298 passengers and crew members were killed.
Chandra said it had been alleged that Malaysia was left out because the country, unlike the four JIT members, would not point a finger at Russia as the cause of the MH17 disaster.
He said Malaysia would not blame Russia or pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine or anybody else "without hard, incontrovertible evidence".
"Neither Ukraine nor the US Administration has been able to offer such evidence to the public. Comprehensive military data from satellite images of the incident would have convinced a lot of people.
"Instead, right from the outset, Ukraine, the US and a number of their allies have constructed a narrative about how pro-Russia rebels in Eastern Ukraine shot down MH 17 with a BUK system supplied by Russia," he said.
The narrative, Chandra said, had been widely disseminated through a biased global media that raised no questions about the motives behind the action or who would have benefitted from it.
He said the anger generated by the "mass murder in the skies" especially in Europe had enabled certain parties to expand and reinforce their economic sanctions against Russia.
In such a situation, he said it was "absolutely right" for Malaysia to adopt a principled position on MH17 which refrained from condemning any party until all the investigations have been completed.
"This is why we are insisting upon total access to the crash site to enable investigators to collect all relevant evidence.
"Malaysia is also demanding that it be given a seat in the JIT. It is a demand that undoubtedly has the support of the entire nation," he said, adding that Umno, the backbone of the Malaysian government, could adopt a resolution endorsing this demand at its general assembly that ends this Saturday.
Chandra said the Malaysian parliament, which is also in session, should lend its weight to a demand, which was at the heart of our integrity and sovereignty as a nation.
"It is just not only because MH17 is ours. It is just because we have a fair and balanced approach to the tragedy and its probe. We want the entire truth to be known.
"Our participation in the investigation will at least help to check any attempt to conceal or camouflage the real story behind one of the most heinous crimes in recent times," he added.
Efforts to recovery the plane's wreckage and debris from the crash site was were recently completed.
It was reported that the wreckage and debris were sent by train to Kharkiv, accompanied by Dutch police and observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
The train also carried the remains of some victims. It was reported that the wreckage and remains would be sent to the Netherlands from Kharkiv. – November 26, 2014.
Has Malaysia been left out of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) probing the MH17 crash because the country would not point fingers at Russia, asks the International Movement for a Just World (JUST) today.
Its president, prominent Malaysian scholar Dr Chandra Muzaffar, said it was logical and sensible for Malaysia to be part of the investigation since national carrier Malaysia Airlines (MAS) owned the downed aircraft.
In an article on the Centre for Research on Globalisation website dated November 24, he wrote that Malaysia had more rights to be in the JIT than some of its present members, and expressed hopes that a resolution endorsing a demand to be included in the team be adopted at the ongoing Umno general assembly.
"One can understand why Ukraine is in the team since that is where the plane was shot from the sky. We can understand the Netherlands’s membership of the JIT since the flight originated from Amsterdam.
"But why is Belgium in the JIT? Is it because Brussels is the administrative capital of the European Union and the EU may have some aviation responsibilities over commercial flights in the continent?
"If that is the case, then it is the EU, not Belgium, which should have a place in the team," he wrote.
Chandra said if Australia was in the JIT because a large number of Australians were killed in that tragedy, Malaysia should also be in the team as it lost 43 citizens on board – the second largest number of casualties after 193 Dutch nationals.
He said the Unites States should perhaps be a member of the investigation team since Boeing, an American multinational, manufactured the 777 passenger jet.
MH17, which was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed in rebel-held eastern Ukraine after it was shot by an air-to-surface missile on July 17. All 298 passengers and crew members were killed.
Chandra said it had been alleged that Malaysia was left out because the country, unlike the four JIT members, would not point a finger at Russia as the cause of the MH17 disaster.
He said Malaysia would not blame Russia or pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine or anybody else "without hard, incontrovertible evidence".
"Neither Ukraine nor the US Administration has been able to offer such evidence to the public. Comprehensive military data from satellite images of the incident would have convinced a lot of people.
"Instead, right from the outset, Ukraine, the US and a number of their allies have constructed a narrative about how pro-Russia rebels in Eastern Ukraine shot down MH 17 with a BUK system supplied by Russia," he said.
The narrative, Chandra said, had been widely disseminated through a biased global media that raised no questions about the motives behind the action or who would have benefitted from it.
He said the anger generated by the "mass murder in the skies" especially in Europe had enabled certain parties to expand and reinforce their economic sanctions against Russia.
In such a situation, he said it was "absolutely right" for Malaysia to adopt a principled position on MH17 which refrained from condemning any party until all the investigations have been completed.
"This is why we are insisting upon total access to the crash site to enable investigators to collect all relevant evidence.
"Malaysia is also demanding that it be given a seat in the JIT. It is a demand that undoubtedly has the support of the entire nation," he said, adding that Umno, the backbone of the Malaysian government, could adopt a resolution endorsing this demand at its general assembly that ends this Saturday.
Chandra said the Malaysian parliament, which is also in session, should lend its weight to a demand, which was at the heart of our integrity and sovereignty as a nation.
"It is just not only because MH17 is ours. It is just because we have a fair and balanced approach to the tragedy and its probe. We want the entire truth to be known.
"Our participation in the investigation will at least help to check any attempt to conceal or camouflage the real story behind one of the most heinous crimes in recent times," he added.
Efforts to recovery the plane's wreckage and debris from the crash site was were recently completed.
It was reported that the wreckage and debris were sent by train to Kharkiv, accompanied by Dutch police and observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
The train also carried the remains of some victims. It was reported that the wreckage and remains would be sent to the Netherlands from Kharkiv. – November 26, 2014.