Pointblank
Senior Member
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Currently the four Vanguard Class submarines make up UK nuclear deterrence
HMS Vanguard
HMS Victorious
HMS Vigilant
HMS Vengance
There is always one on nuclear patrol, one in port, one on excercise and one in re-fit, it's the way SSBN work, you can't have three and have the capability of anyone, anytime and anywhere, it takes four to have 24 hour deterrence that has always been the set up
It costs around $700 million per year each to operate these SSBN, total budget for these four submarine is around $3 billion per year, replacement of all four will require between £15-20 billion
Cutting to three units will save only £4 billion but the decrease in capability will not do the cut justice, you can't justify it
Four boats need to be replaced with four boats, they will serve beyond 2060 and no one knows what the world will be like then
Some people say UK can't afford to have these SSBN, I say UK cant afford NOT to have these SSBN
HMS Vanguard
HMS Victorious
HMS Vigilant
HMS Vengance
There is always one on nuclear patrol, one in port, one on excercise and one in re-fit, it's the way SSBN work, you can't have three and have the capability of anyone, anytime and anywhere, it takes four to have 24 hour deterrence that has always been the set up
It costs around $700 million per year each to operate these SSBN, total budget for these four submarine is around $3 billion per year, replacement of all four will require between £15-20 billion
Cutting to three units will save only £4 billion but the decrease in capability will not do the cut justice, you can't justify it
Four boats need to be replaced with four boats, they will serve beyond 2060 and no one knows what the world will be like then
Some people say UK can't afford to have these SSBN, I say UK cant afford NOT to have these SSBN
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
F35C would really have provided the range and payload if it were to be used from a CATOBAR carrier but the F35B provides operational capability to the Royal Air Force which it has never had before
It's a 5th generation aircraft, stealth and will have capability which is a big leap over the Harriers, so in that sense it's a very good aircraft for RN and RAF
It's a 5th generation aircraft, stealth and will have capability which is a big leap over the Harriers, so in that sense it's a very good aircraft for RN and RAF
What do you mean UK can't afford NOT to have these SSBN? Brazil is a larger country with a larger population and a larger economy and can afford not to have SSBN. What is the advantage to UK to have these things?
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Afford in the sene of its demographics, geopolitical situation and commitments
UK has maintained a nuclear derrance at sea for over four decades, counter-terrorism, anti-piracy, maritime security, NATO obligations, national security, regional security the list of missions is endless for the Royal Navy
Just last month HMS Trenchant returned after the longest ever deployment, 335 days, (267 spent east of suez) a record sail for a Royal Navy SSN, such a long mission has put it out of action for at least 18 months while it under goes a major overhaul and repair putting more strain on the current fleet
UK nuclear submarines are pressed very very hard as the number of missions are always increasing they simply can't afford not to have them, they have 7 SSN and 4 SSBN, 11 nuclear submarines, they can't even afford to cut even one of them, it will compromise the entire fleet
1 SSN and 1 SSBN is always deployed, and now with two Queen Elizabeth carrier soon needing escorts the need for them is ever higher
Your list of RN tasks is impressive but what is the purpose of the SSBN's? Deterrence of the US? The Tridents will be programmed not to go there. Deterrence of any other country? If in twenty years time London thinks it necessary to attack say Kenya and that country has one nuke which it brings to the Thames and explode at sea level during an Easterly wind: Forget about London, will it repair the honor of the UK to launch one to three submarine loads, 16 to 48 missiles against that country? Btw by then Scotland will probably be independent. Where will those boats be based?
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
now that delft is very good question, if not THE question
It's two parts to it, first will Scotland become independent and the second what is the militray implications
Referendum is next year, the timing is perfect, right after the Glasgow hosting the commonwealth games and just after the Gleneagles Ryder cup, you know the Scottish people will be on a high and they will slip in the votes which could swing the balance
As for the critics, they said Scotland will never get its own parliament, it did, then they said they will never vote SNP into that Parliament, they did, then they said they will never become majority in the parliament to pass the referendum vote well they did that too and now they are saying they won't get independence well who knows its divided in the polls by 1/3 for, 1/3 against and 1/3 undecided
So what I'm saying is that Scottish independence is a very real reality, now what happens to the nuclear submarines, well a independent Scotland has rejected all nuclear weapons, therefore under thier mandate it requires England to remove all nuclear weapons in storage or active service to be removed from Scottish soil
This means Rosyth has to remove the decommissioned submarines and the Vanguard and thier entire facility's will have to be removed from the Clyde at Faslane
How expensive and hard is it to relocate a entire SSBN base and their warheads?? Very very expensive, who is going to pay for them?? Well we still dont know, some estimates say in excess of £20 over 15 years
England proposed that the naval bases will still be part of England used as like Gibralta, a special zone which belongs to England but in Scotland but this has been rejected
So there is actually no answer as of yet, once Scotland becomes independent these questions will be addressed so far only the policy documents have been suggested, how and when it is done will be decided after independence but what is certain is that no nukes are allowed in Scotland