UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Abominable said:
Have as many type 83 as you wish.
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That's very kind of you. I'll inform the UK government.
Abominable said:
So long as the RN stay out of Chinese or Russian waters no one would care. Do you see any Chinese military vessels going up and down in the Irish sea?
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Last time I checked the Irish sea wasn't a major international shipping artery, nor was it disputed territory with one or more parties building military bases on islets or recovered land, threatening each other, etc.

If China wants to conduct a "freedom of navigation" exercise in the Irish Sea it's more than welcome to do so. It would just look really strange.

Abominable said:
The only reason the "carrier strike group" is still sailing and not at the bottom of the sea following their activities in Russia and China is because of America.
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Oh, the old "you're lucky there's a teacher around" comment. Are China and Russia going to get us on our way home? I'm so scared! :eek:

Or maybe we'll see the German Navy's ship get sunk in mysterious circumstances? They've sent a frigate towards the disputed area, and as far as I know it's going to be operating by itself.

Abominable said:
At least France has a credible independent nuclear weapons platform, I'll give them that. The UK doesn't even have that.
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Lol, you are bitter, aren't you?

Trident is both credible and independent. The only issue is that the US helps service our missiles, and they've got no reason to stop doing that.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Guys. Just ignore the chap who lives in an alternate universe. He'll only twist anything and everything you say.

He's a typical bully just like his country. It is a good job, "Great" Britain is no longer ....... great, and is flat broke and can't afford a bean. Otherwise, he and his kind will send more ships thousands of miles from home ........ to...... em..... defend "freedom and democracy" by killing and subjugated jolly foreigners.

It didn't end well the last few times the mighty "Great" British armed forces venture out hanging on to the back of the U.S. trench coat.
 
A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Mr T said:
That's very kind of you. I'll inform the UK government.

Last time I checked the Irish sea wasn't a major international shipping artery, nor was it disputed territory with one or more parties building military bases on islets or recovered land, threatening each other, etc.

If China wants to conduct a "freedom of navigation" exercise in the Irish Sea it's more than welcome to do so. It would just look really strange.


Oh, the old "you're lucky there's a teacher around" comment. Are China and Russia going to get us on our way home? I'm so scared! :eek:

Or maybe we'll see the German Navy's ship get sunk in mysterious circumstances? They've sent a frigate towards the disputed area, and as far as I know it's going to be operating by itself.


Lol, you are bitter, aren't you?

Trident is both credible and independent. The only issue is that the US helps service our missiles, and they've got no reason to stop doing that.
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A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Mr T said:
That's very kind of you. I'll inform the UK government.

Last time I checked the Irish sea wasn't a major international shipping artery, nor was it disputed territory with one or more parties building military bases on islets or recovered land, threatening each other, etc.

If China wants to conduct a "freedom of navigation" exercise in the Irish Sea it's more than welcome to do so. It would just look really strange.
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A Chinese fleet turning up in UK waters would look like warmongering, the sort of thing that would belong in the cold war. Which is exactly what the UK is doing right now.

Northern Ireland is still disputed territory last time I checked, although with the success of Sinn Fein and collapse of unionist parties it probably won't be for much longer.

If you feel it isn't disputed enough, feel free to use the example of Gibraltar, Falklands, Diego Garcia, or any of the other colonial remnants.

Mr T said:
Oh, the old "you're lucky there's a teacher around" comment. Are China and Russia going to get us on our way home? I'm so scared! :eek:
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As we're using schoolboy analogies, I think the little kid who thinks he's tough because he's got a bigger brother is more apt.

Mr T said:
Lol, you are bitter, aren't you?

Trident is both credible and independent. The only issue is that the US helps service our missiles, and they've got no reason to stop doing that.
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Right...how do you know they don't have backdoors in them, or the US doesn't share codes with the enemy?

The UK nuclear deterrent is 100% dependent on the foreign policy of the USA. That's fine and dandy when you're singing from the same hymn sheet, but what about when you're not?

If nukes existed in 1939 would America allow the UK to use them against Germany? What about the Falklands?

In other words, the UK is as much a nuclear power as somewhere like Turkey.

You're only allowed to use them if the US lets you - likely in a scenario where America would be flinging multiple in the same direction. But since America has enough warheads to cover the surface area of their enemies multiple times, it makes you wonder what the point is of the UK programme.
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Abominable said:
A Chinese fleet turning up in UK waters would look like warmongering, the sort of thing that would belong in the cold war.
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You know the PLAN has sailed warships through the English Channel, right? Not just once, I believe it was twice in the last couple of years. Or does China get a free pass because of some arbitrary criteria you're going to advance?
Abominable said:
Northern Ireland is still disputed territory last time I checked, although with the success of Sinn Fein and collapse of unionist parties it probably won't be for much longer.
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It's not disputed. Ireland recognises it as part of the UK. Domestic parties wanting independence doesn't make it disputed, just as Quebecois independence parties existing doesn't mean Quebec is a disputed territory.

You're also conveniently missing the point. The concern over the South Seas isn't that it's just disputed, it's that it's a vital global trade route.

Abominable said:
As we're using schoolboy analogies, I think the little kid who thinks he's tough because he's got a bigger brother is more apt.
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Dude, you're the one that brought in the childish behaviour. The Royal Navy hasn't been threatening to sink Russian or Chinese ships, whether in territorial or international waters. Just accept exercise of freedom is a thing and move on.

Abominable said:
Right...how do you know they don't have backdoors in them, or the US doesn't share codes with the enemy?
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What "backdoors" and what "enemy"? You're talking conspiracy nonsense.

The US didn't make the Vanguard submarines for the Royal Navy. They designed and made the Trident missiles. So the US couldn't launch or stop the launch of a UK Trident missile. The only "backdoor" they could insert would be into the missiles to override a target order once they'd been launched. That would be incredibly fucking dangerous, because if someone else discovered the backdoor they could use it to neutralise a US missile strike or even redirect them on to friendly targets. That is not a price worth paying just to potentially fuck over a country that has been a close ally for several decades.

And the idea of handing that information off to a third country, who the hell does the US trust with its military secrets more than the UK?

Abominable said:
The UK nuclear deterrent is 100% dependent on the foreign policy of the USA. That's fine and dandy when you're singing from the same hymn sheet, but what about when you're not?
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The UK's nuclear policy is strictly defensive, so foreign policy is irrelevant. You're suggesting that the US wouldn't just sit out of intervening during a nuclear attack on the UK, it would deliberately stop us from being able to retaliate.

Honestly, I have no idea where you get your information from. You sound like someone who was raised on conspiracy theories and believes the Moon landings were faked.
 
Tse

Tse

Junior Member
Registered Member
Pub161-pgIV.jpg

The area of active contestation in the South China Sea is entirely within the Dangerous Ground area, which is impassable to shipping. The shipping routes are the "Main route" along the Vietnamese coastline, or the Palawan Passage to the east, or the "Eastern route" to its north. The question is, who would use the protection of shipping, of all things, as the pretext for military intervention?
 
G

GTI

Junior Member
Registered Member
Tse said:
Pub161-pgIV.jpg

The area of active contestation in the South China Sea is entirely within the Dangerous Ground area, which is impassable to shipping. The shipping routes are the "Main route" along the Vietnamese coastline, or the Palawan Passage to the east, or the "Eastern route" to its north. The question is, who would use the protection of shipping, of all things, as the pretext for military intervention?
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He knows damn well that in any scenario, from possible to outlandish - exactly who the only people wanting to block shipping routes or attempt an embargo (in that area) are.

The difficulties of actually attempting something (bringing world trade to a standstill, angering other nations and/or the impossible task to 100% determine what arbitrarily-flagged commercial ship is going where) notwithstanding - It clearly wouldn’t be the largest trading nation that already has great prospects for further future advancement.
 
A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Mr T said:
You know the PLAN has sailed warships through the English Channel, right? Not just once, I believe it was twice in the last couple of years. Or does China get a free pass because of some arbitrary criteria you're going to advance?

It's not disputed. Ireland recognises it as part of the UK. Domestic parties wanting independence doesn't make it disputed, just as Quebecois independence parties existing doesn't mean Quebec is a disputed territory.

You're also conveniently missing the point. The concern over the South Seas isn't that it's just disputed, it's that it's a vital global trade route.
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I don't think any country should get a pass, big or small. I do have problems with a small island country with a history of genocide being an appropriate arbitor of peace anywhere.
I also don't think its a big deal if China "controls" the south CHINA sea - the clue is in the name. If China was contesting the Irish sea or the Mexico sea I could understand. Obviously there will need to be negotiations between the likes of Indonesia, Phillipines and China but US/UK warmongering is exacerbating the situation on purpose.
Mr T said:
What "backdoors" and what "enemy"? You're talking conspiracy nonsense.

The US didn't make the Vanguard submarines for the Royal Navy. They designed and made the Trident missiles. So the US couldn't launch or stop the launch of a UK Trident missile. The only "backdoor" they could insert would be into the missiles to override a target order once they'd been launched. That would be incredibly fucking dangerous, because if someone else discovered the backdoor they could use it to neutralise a US missile strike or even redirect them on to friendly targets. That is not a price worth paying just to potentially fuck over a country that has been a close ally for several decades.

And the idea of handing that information off to a third country, who the hell does the US trust with its military secrets more than the UK?

The UK's nuclear policy is strictly defensive, so foreign policy is irrelevant. You're suggesting that the US wouldn't just sit out of intervening during a nuclear attack on the UK, it would deliberately stop us from being able to retaliate.

Honestly, I have no idea where you get your information from. You sound like someone who was raised on conspiracy theories and believes the Moon landings were faked.
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It was enough for the French to go for their own delivery systems.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Mr T said:
You know the PLAN has sailed warships through the English Channel, right? Not just once, I believe it was twice in the last couple of years. Or does China get a free pass because of some arbitrary criteria you're going to advance?
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Guys. Look at this bending of reality at it's best.

How can anyone in their sane mind equates China's two-times sailing down the English channel be equates to U.K. sending their biggest warship ever built, together with the biggest armada the U.K. ever assembled since the Falklands?

The Chinese ships were invited by the U.K. and other European countries. It was a benign goodwill visit. It even made port calls in Portsmouth and Holland.

Where as the armada led by Queen Lizzy was neither invited nor welcome. Its stated purpose was enforcement of "freedom of navigation". An aggressive and provocative act in anyone's book.... well apart from his own world view book.
 
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