UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jura said:

"The National Shipbuilding Strategy made the recommendation that the MoD replace the ships once they reach their first refit period, rather than extending their time in service thorough costly refits, meaning that Type 31es could be sold while still relatively new and replaced with more modern incrementally upgraded examples all while clawing back some of the money used to build them with overseas sales.

The idea behind this being that ships have a 15 year life span, rather than the 30 or so they usually would, meaning they are sold on at mid-life refit time. Doing this would maintain relatively constant production of the Type 31e, similar to the Arleigh Burke class in the United States which has now been in build for decades with each batch being superior to the last."

This was of course the same as the original plan for the Type 23 class frigates, which had a 'design' life of 18 years, the idea being to force the government into a continuous rolling building programme of one frigate a year, and meant the vast sums spent on mid life refits could be channelled into new purpose built designs better able to accommodate new weapons and sensors. A very sensible idea. Which of course the Government weaselled their way out of and which lead to the very expensive but very necessary type 23 mid life update refits currently underway. Similarly HMS Ocean was always said to have a twenty year life span because the plan was to force the government into building a more up to date replacement without having to spend money on a big refit. Which they did anyway (about four years ago, extending her life way beyond 2018).

It's a good plan, not new, failed last time because the pollies screwed it up. Just waiting to see how they screw it up this time...

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Obi Wan Russell said:

inside:

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Jura said:

Yesterday at 8:19 PM
I wonder what the armament of this 'whopper'
("... with a displacement of approximately 5,700 tonnes ..."

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)
would be; I've read somewhere 1 m of the hull = 1 m Pounds, I'll leave it at that

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Jura said:

"This was of course the same as the original plan for the Type 23 class frigates, which had a 'design' life of 18 years, the idea being to force the government into a continuous rolling building programme of one frigate a year, and meant the vast sums spent on mid life refits could be channelled into new purpose built designs better able to accommodate new weapons and sensors. A very sensible idea. Which of course the Government weaselled their way out of and which lead to the very expensive but very necessary type 23 mid life update refits currently underway. Similarly HMS Ocean was always said to have a twenty year life span because the plan was to force the government into building a more up to date replacement without having to spend money on a big refit. Which they did anyway (about four years ago, extending her life way beyond 2018).

It's a good plan, not new, failed last time because the pollies screwed it up. Just waiting to see how they screw it up this time..."

if it's "a good plan" it depends on the original design,

and who on Earth (except a ship scrapping company) would pay for an oversized OPV

Jun 1, 2018

which cost $300m fifteen plus years ago, this price including, cough cough, weaponry?!

not sure if any Navy of the World would want such a vessel even if donated

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Obi Wan Russell said:

The 'Good Plan' refers to keeping the shipyards in work and supplying the RN with a steady stream of up to date ships which as they approach obsolescence are replaced by newer up to date ships, and then the older ones provide second and third tier navies with second hand warships that are by no means clapped out and fit only for scrap. I was referring to the type 23s where the plan originated, and now it is being revived for the type 31e, which in itself is supposed to be attractive as an export design even when new build. Getting the design right in the first place is where we are at now, and once again the politicians are getting in the way.

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Fleet of fancy! Modeller spent 70 years and used over a MILLION matchsticks to create all 484 warships to ever sail in the Royal Navy since 1945 including HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier

• Master modeller Philip Warren has spent 70 years building an incredible fleet of 484 warships from matches
• The 87-year-old has painstakingly hand made the whole armada using using just a ruler, razor blade and glue
• The impressive collection has even caught the eye of some of the royals, in the 1980s he presented a model of the HMS Cumberland to Prince Andrew at Broughton Airfield

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Deino said:

Not sure if it is the correct thread - most likely not - but since we don't have a dedicated modelling section yet I post it here:

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Simply amazing.
Deino

@Jeff Head

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Jura said:

who'd post if not me

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UK Royal

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is reactivating

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Offshore Patrol

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HMS

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P281 - only decommissioned May 24 (!) - as problems with new OPV

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P222 (commissioned April 13) are more serious than thought. SEVERN P282, decom'ed last October, refitting as well.

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Jura said:

for those who remember Feb 6, 2016

Type 45 Destroyers:Written question - 67575

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Q
Asked by

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(Portsmouth South)
Asked on: 13 March 2017
"To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, when he plans to award contracts for the Power Improvement Project for the Type 45 destroyer class."

A
Answered by:

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Answered on: 16 March 2017
"On current plans, we anticipate that the Ministry of Defence will be able to award the contract for the Power Improvement Project for the Type 45 Destroyer class in early 2018."

(related, dated May 2016 though:
Project Napier sees twin-track plan adopted to resolve Type 45 problems

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vaporware?

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Jura said:

Nov 6, 2017

Jura said:

noticed in Twitter:

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Yes they are very complex, but why are 4 SSBNs going to cost around 4 x that of 7 Astute class submarines? chart via

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sorta related:
Trident submarine plans facing a ‘perfect storm’ of problems, says MoD report
19th November

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The UK National Audit Office expects the total cost of the Trident nuclear submarine programme to hit £50.9bn – £2.9bn over budget – on top of the £3bn the MoD has already had to find in efficiency savings. Julian Turner asks how further cutbacks can be made without compromising Trident’s mission.

For anyone old enough to remember the Cold War in general – and the 1963 Cuban Missile Crisis in particular – the phrase ‘mutually assured destruction’ is likely to be indelibly etched on their psyche.

The concept is chillingly simple: if two opposing sides have sufficient nuclear weapons to annihilate the other, full-scale nuclear war will be avoided, as a pre-emptive strike by either would guarantee its subsequent destruction. It also means, of course, that neither nation has any incentive to disarm.

Until recently, talk of all-out nuclear war had, thankfully, all but disappeared from public discourse – yet, like the weapons that enforce it, the concept of mutually assured destruction remains in place.

For the past half-century, somewhere in the world, a British Vanguard-class submarine carrying up to 16 missiles, each armed with up to eight nuclear warheads, has been on patrol below the ocean’s surface. The logic goes that the vessel acts as a

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, because even if the nation’s conventional defences were destroyed, a submarine could still launch a catastrophic retaliatory strike on the aggressor.

“Our nuclear deterrent guarantees the defence of the UK, and it has done so successfully for more than half of my life and yours,” wrote Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in an open letter in 1986.

“To be effective, our deterrent has to be adequate to overcome the defences ranged against it.

“The Soviet Union has invested hugely in defence against ballistic missiles. It is now upgrading these defences further. If we are to retain the ability to penetrate them, we have to modernise our weapons systems. That was why we chose Trident. It will ensure that our deterrent remains effective well into the next century.”

Vanguard: renewing Britain’s nuclear deterrent
More than three decades later, the tense stand-off between the US and North Korea and concern about Iran’s nuclear programme have reignited the nuclear defence debate. In March, Prime Minister Theresa May reaffirmed the government’s commitment to maintaining the UK’s nuclear deterrent.

“The Chancellor of the Exchequer and I agreed the Ministry of Defence (MoD) will have access to £600m this coming financial year for the MoD’s Dreadnought submarine programme,” she said.

“Today’s announcement will ensure the work to rebuild the UK’s new world-class submarines remains on schedule and another sign of the deep commitment this government has to keeping our country safe.”

A final decision on the future of the Trident submarine fleet could not have waited much longer.

The current generation of four 150m-long Vanguard-class subs – Vanguard, Victorious, Vigilant and Vengeance – were introduced in 1994 and are due to be taken out of operation sometime in the late 2020s. The cost of replacing them with four new Dreadnought-class vessels is estimated to be £31bn.

Only one vessel is on patrol at any one time and work on a replacement could take up to 17 years.

Like its predecessors, the Dreadnought-class submarines will be equipped with multiple UGM-133A Trident II or Trident D5 submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs). Built by Lockheed Martin, they have a range of up to 7,500 miles. The subs will be the largest ever built for the Royal Navy, measuring 152.9m and with a displacement of 17,200 tonnes. They will cater for 130 crew, and manufacture their own oxygen and fresh water.

The £50.9bn price tag: can the MoD afford Trident?
However, funding the vast project is proving difficult. A recent report by the UK National Audit Office (NAO) reveals a significant shortfall in funding to renew and maintain the Trident nuclear deterrent.

Entitled ‘Equipment Plan 2017-2027’, the report puts the total projected cost of the Trident nuclear submarine project – designing, producing and maintaining the fleet of nuclear subs that carry warheads – at £50.9bn, £2.9bn more than the available Ministry of Defence (MoD) budget.

Around a quarter of the UK’s defence equipment budget to 2028 is earmarked for nuclear projects; this financial year, the MoD is expected to spend £1.8bn on procuring and supporting submarines.

The MoD has already taken £600m out of a £10bn contingency fund to pay for the Dreadnought programme and may be forced to go cap in hand to the Treasury again to plug the £2.9bn spending gap, the NAO warned.

“The coming years are crucial,” said Sir Amyas Morse, comptroller and auditor general of the NAO. “As the department invests heavily in the Dreadnought-class submarines and more widely across the enterprise, it needs to ensure that the new structures, processes and workforce operate effectively together to manage the £2.9bn affordability gap across the enterprise.”

The chair of the Commons Public Accounts Committee, Meg Hillier, commented: “The budget pressures on the MoD’s nuclear programme are significant. The department will need to make some critical decisions to get the programme on track financially.”

Are there viable alternatives to Trident?
The UK defence industry is already feeling the pinch. To fund the Vanguard replacement programme, the MoD has already had to find £3bn in efficiency savings over the next decade. Then there is the employment and brain drain dimension. Estimates suggest that up to 15,000 jobs – as well as significant expertise – may be lost if new submarines were not commissioned.

However, the NAO also flagged up skill shortages that need plugging across seven military sectors, with a need for 377 more skilled staff.

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that the MoD has developed new ways of working with key contractors such BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce on the Dreadnought programme in an effort to rectify past “poor performance”.

So, if the money can’t be found, what are the alternatives to Britain’s Trident nuclear deterrent in its current form?

The idea of using cruise missiles based on different subs with a far shorter range of around 1,000 miles was dismissed as even more costly, in terms of research and development, than renewing Trident. Cruise missiles, it was also pointed out, are also slower and more vulnerable to being shot down.

Other suggestions include a strategically located, land-based missile delivery system or launching missiles from a long-range aircraft. However, a 2013 options review again pointed to their shorter range and vulnerability, concluding that the idea needed “much more work”.

The Royal Navy has been committed to continuous at sea deterrence since April 1969. With military budgets under severe pressure, the UK Government may have to dig deeper into its pockets if the Trident nuclear deterrent is to be upgraded and maintained for a further 50 years.

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