U.S VS Iran getting close

Israel's Arrow ABM was mentioned above, seems they're trying to find out how it would perform against Iran's MRBM's



Israeli missile test 'successful'

Israel has carried out a successful test of its Arrow missile, the defence ministry has said.
One of the missiles was fired at night and destroyed what Israeli media said was a target similar to Iran's long-range Shahab-3 missile.

The test took place as Iran celebrated the 28th anniversary of its Islamic revolution.

Israel has considered Iran its greatest threat since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in Iraq in 2003, analysts say.

'Message to Iran'

"This evening's successful test reinforces Israel's readiness... against external threats at the extremes of its operational envelope," said Israeli Defence Minister Amir Peretz.

The Arrow missile was fired from a base south of Tel Aviv at a missile launched from an aircraft over the eastern Mediterranean at a high altitude.

This was the first test of the Arrow missile to be conducted at night.

Israeli public television called the test a "message to Iran".

The anti-ballistic missile system was developed jointly with the United States after Israel came under attack by Iraqi Scud missiles during the first Gulf War.

Some Western nations, including Israel, fear Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons.

Iran says its nuclear programme is for peaceful purposes only.


So was this a long pre-planned test or do the Israeli's know that it's going to kick off soon and are making sure that Arrow is up to the job?

Repeated salvo attacks with an interval time of 12 minutes inbetween. I doubt Arrow will prove to be that sucessfull as Israelis would like to believe it would be.

All depends on how many Shahabs will be left ready to fly after the initial onslaught.

A nuclear Iran is simple inevitable and as Chirac said, If they have one or two is better then they walking out of NPT and start prolifirating.

Not sure I much care for the idea of a nuclear armed Iran,as there is a strong chance they will proliferate wether they are in the NPT or not. President Ahmadinijad has publicaly stated he would like to wipe Israel of the map,and a statesman who behaves like that simply cannot be trusted!
Combine this with their known sponsorship of Hezbollah,and a nuclear armed Iran is a recipe for disaster in the Middle East and beyond!

That Israel issue is an interesting point. If read an article (perhaps even on this forum?) that farsi linguists think he said "the Jerusalem Regime must diminish from the earth". This doesn't even necessarily implay the use of force.
The critical point was already NK (or even India and Pakistan), they got their weapon, now it's becoming ever more complicated to intervene with every new state getting one.
At the Munic security conference I think Larijani offered Iran could suspend uranium enrichment if Iran is guaranteed a secure supply of nuclear material. However, he said Iran lost trust in western states to stand to that treaty.
Something that can't be denied is that Iran has the right for nuclear energy and that other states wich have it already have to provide support by treaty.
You can temporarily withhold it by pointing on current circumstances, and A's statements are of course crucial. But you should not just say Iran shall not have a nuclear energy capability.
On the other hand if a country develops nukes agaist treaties you probably find justification for military actions. But again credibility was already lost by not acting on NK, or even India and Pakistan. There were not even other lasting consequences. Just because India is a democracy and Pakistan allowed a counter for stability? As I said, not credible.

Well, I now hope I didn't get too far with that ..., sorry if so

lcortez said:

Not sure I much care for the idea of a nuclear armed Iran,as there is a strong chance they will proliferate wether they are in the NPT or not. President Ahmadinijad has publicaly stated he would like to wipe Israel of the map,and a statesman who behaves like that simply cannot be trusted!
Combine this with their known sponsorship of Hezbollah,and a nuclear armed Iran is a recipe for disaster in the Middle East and beyond!

Click to expand...

Sorry bro, but he never said that we was going to wipe Israel off the map. That never came out of his mouth. He was referring Israel to the Soviet Union and said the government of Israel should dissapear. He never mentioned anything about killing a single Israeli man, woman, or child. Read over his exact speech and you'll find out. Also, Iran had WMD's during the Iran-Iraq war but never decided to use them. A country is more likely to commit a crime if it has already done so in the past. One last thing is that Ahmadinijad has no real authority in Iran, the real power lies with the ayotollahs, most of whom don't like Ahmanijiad's behaviour at all these days. The recipe of disaster is to start a war with Iran over inconclusive evidence.

Even if they are from Iran, does Mexico blames the US govn't when the drug cartels use American- made weapons in their wars with each other and police? Or did the UK blame France for selling Exocet missiles and Super Enterdards to Argentina? (), and US the same to Iraq (, )

bd popeye said:

alwaysfresh sez;

I doubt seriously that Iran could operate their subs out of the Persian Gulf. They do not have the logistics to do so.

So, always fresh, what gives you the idea that Iran could attack the US with missiles in the manner you described?

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No reason just a guess and I have no information that is not or is possible. It is just that after reading the comments of other users about the capabilities of US military and the fact that the US military has two carrier groups in the area, I just figure that these submarines would be more effective in a war against the US, if there were by the USA coast (if you want to know why read my comment to Icortez below).

lcortez; said:

Dont think Iranian subs will it US mainland, as this will lead Irans total destruction if large numbers of US civilians lose their lives!Any such action will most likely be terrorist related with al qaeda and others taking advantage of the situation,This would also give Iran of some deniability.

Click to expand...

I mean it would serious affect the daily lives of many Americans and the Economy. The USA has never been attacked like that before (Japanese attack was against military targets and far from home of most Americans) and it would bring the reality of war to the homes of Americans much better then the glorified way the media does it. I mean you see some building blow up on TV is more alot different then when the building is around the corner and people you know are affected by the attack, because next time you watch a bomb go off in Iraq or Iran you will actually know how it is affecting the lives of civilians.

The psychological aspect would be hugh against the US military personal also, as they are fighting a war in Iran, while their homes and families in the USA were being attacked would cause much more distress.

I mean I hope it doesn't happen, but it I was Iran's leader this would be at the top of the list of things to be able to do to end the war if it starts. What else can he do pray the B2's miss their targets? The targets in a war would be alot of civilian places anyways (roads, bridges, airports, electricity, water supplies, communications...), so the Iran subs if they can make it to the US would also target similar places.

I mean I hope it doesn't happen, but it I was Iran's leader this would be at the top of the list of things to be able to do to end the war if it starts. What else can he do pray the B2's miss their targets? The targets in a war would be alot of civilian places anyways (roads, bridges, airports, electricity, water supplies, communications...), so the Iran subs if they can make it to the US would also target similar places.

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To me, this is a somewhat dubious claim. If history is any indication, leaders are most interested in preserving their own power - up to the point where they have absolutely nothing left to lose. Initiating a preemptive strike against the United States would lead to Ahmadinijad's downfall and he knows it. Writing off people as insane or incapable of being reasoned with only leads to excuses to attack them without other justification. Leaders like him or Kim behave "rationally" in the sense that they do what they can to retain power.

Iran drones 'can attack US ships'

An Iranian website close to the Revolutionary Guard has said they have drones that can launch attacks on American warships in the Persian Gulf.

This comes as the US has sent a second aircraft carrier to the Gulf in a move it says is intended to warn Iran that it intends to have a regional presence.

Both sides have increased the talk of war readiness in recent weeks.

This comes as concerns mount internationally about Iran's nuclear programme and its involvement in Iraq.

The Baztab website quotes the acting commander of the Revolutionary Guard's land forces as saying that Iran has unmanned aircraft that can fly long distances and launch attacks on American warships.

The commander reportedly said this would make the Americans leave the region in shame.

He added Iran had all US activity, including the slightest changes of the enemy, under constant surveillance.

And the website also quoted the commander claiming that Iran had managed to put the logo of the Revolutionary Guards on the side of an American warship in the Gulf to demonstrate how insecure they were in this region.

There is no independent confirmation of these Iranian assertions, but they show how Tehran is trying to counter what it says is the psychological warfare of the Americans with claims of military superiority.

Every few weeks, there are new Iranian war games and state television shows pictures of fresh military hardware like missiles and torpedoes being tested.

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The delimma USA faces is to attck now and suffer medium casualties or attack later and suffer high casualties. All that too for the sake of protecting Israel.

The more I read, the more I get convinced that this Iranian president wouldnt be talking this big had there not been some sort of contingent plans in place.

Aliph Ahmed said:

Iran drones 'can attack US ships'

An Iranian website close to the Revolutionary Guard has said they have drones that can launch attacks on American warships in the Persian Gulf.

This comes as the US has sent a second aircraft carrier to the Gulf in a move it says is intended to warn Iran that it intends to have a regional presence.

Both sides have increased the talk of war readiness in recent weeks.

This comes as concerns mount internationally about Iran's nuclear programme and its involvement in Iraq.

The Baztab website quotes the acting commander of the Revolutionary Guard's land forces as saying that Iran has unmanned aircraft that can fly long distances and launch attacks on American warships.

The commander reportedly said this would make the Americans leave the region in shame.

He added Iran had all US activity, including the slightest changes of the enemy, under constant surveillance.

And the website also quoted the commander claiming that Iran had managed to put the logo of the Revolutionary Guards on the side of an American warship in the Gulf to demonstrate how insecure they were in this region.

There is no independent confirmation of these Iranian assertions, but they show how Tehran is trying to counter what it says is the psychological warfare of the Americans with claims of military superiority.

Every few weeks, there are new Iranian war games and state television shows pictures of fresh military hardware like missiles and torpedoes being tested.

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The delimma USA faces is to attck now and suffer medium casualties or attack later and suffer high casualties. All that too for the sake of protecting Israel.

The more I read, the more I get convinced that this Iranian president wouldnt be talking this big had there not been some sort of contingent plans in place.

Click to expand...

That Iran would have UCAV's that could fire weapons at hostile warships isn't news. Claiming that they can use them to "make the Americans leave the region in shame," is. As the article says, there is no independent confiirmation of these claims, how exactly did they put the Rev Guards logo on an American warship? Did they drape a flag over the side which would be highly unlikely, or did they use a projector of some sort? In which case the Americans were never going to take defensive measures against whatever was carrying the projector in peacetime. It would have been mildly irritating for the Americans but it's hardly Pearl Harbour! The Iranians claimed that one of their drones overflew the USS Ronald Reagan in the Straits of Hormuz a year or 2 ago, but people who have seen the film state that the type of aircraft shown on the carrier suggested that the film was taken many years earlier.

And if it ever came to a shooting war, I don't think thay any Iranian UCAV would get close enough to a CVBG to fire their weapons. They'd be picked up by the escorting Ticonderogas and Burkes and shot down long before they got within weapons range. And even if they did get in close enough, current UCAV's can't carry anything much bigger than a Hellfire type missile, how is that going to cripple a 90,000 tonne CVN?

This just seems to be part of the "war of nerves" going on between America and Iran. America moves in more hardware, Iran tests some missiles and makes grandiose claims. The real way Iran can hurt America in a war is in Iraq by increasing it's support for the Shia insurgents. I still don't think there is going to be a war here, the stakes are too high for both sides. Eventually they'll realise that the only way out is by diplomacy, just as the NK situation seems to be heading to a negotiated settlement.